STRATEGY >> NL vs PL

[memphis_aces]

Hey guys.. I tried a search but it turned up too many random threads that made it impossible to sift through so I figured I'd start this thread...

I'm a mid-stage player right now... have learned to tighten up, and am now learning the aggressive side (when to make moves and when not to). Overall I've done pretty well online and even better in local home games and down at the 2/4 thru 4/8 tables in Tunica. My primary game is NL Tourneys but I also play a little low limit to flesh out my bankroll with less variance than NL.

Last might I entered a PL 3-table tourney at PP and had a decent run despite not being in the right mindset to play well. Finished with a nice return for 4th, but I made some pretty bad plays at times....partially due to not being focused, but also due to a lack of familiarity with the PL structure.

My question is basically this....aside from the obvious differences (how much you can bet)...
• What STRATEGIC differences exist between PL and NL?
• What advice would you give to a NL player interested in exploring the PL format a little more thoroughly?
• How is the level of play at PL vs NL? My first guess would be fewer "fish" at PL due to the popularity of the "all-in" among them...but I don't know for sure.
• Any other advice...particularly for tournament PL play?

Thanks in advance...I'm fairly new here but a longtime lurker and I've learned a LOT from these boards.

[turnipmonster]

In tournament play I have no idea of the differences, so I'm only talking cash play.

As the stacks/blinds ratio gets smaller, the two games get closer in play. as the pot gets bigger, you are more able to get the money in the way you would in NL.

to me, preflop is the most different street in PL vs NL, and that's where you should be making a lot of your strategy adjustments. with relatively deep stacks, you can't really raise enough with a good hand to shut people out, especially in EP. in a 5-5 game, you can only open for 20 straight, and almost anyone is going to be calling playing for the set and you are playing a guessing game with your big pair on the flop out of position. not good. one of my solutions is to incorporate limp reraising into your playbook. you CANNOT limp reraise with just your big hands though, or else you will be too readable. mix it up.

position is important in NL, it's VERY important in PL because you cannot just stack on the flop with your draws most of the time, like so many NL fish like to do. in PL you must play well on later streets, and make good decisions when there is a lot of money in the pot. this is the reason a lot of people say it's the most skillful form of hold 'em.

your ideal situation is to have some yahoo with a big pair in EP, and to have several callers and the button with a strong drawing hand on the flop. the callers give you good odds to draw out on everyone, and the big pair guy will probably pay you off. this goes double if you have a double gutter or other non obvious draw. this is also why some people call raises with strange hands on the button, and the players that take home all the money often appear to have very indiscriminate starting standards in late position.

another very important aspect of PL is pot building, because you have to create a pot to bet at.

I'd love to hear what flynn,limon and mike have to say about this topic. let's hear it!

--turnipmonster

[memphis_aces]

Excellent post! Thank you....good insight.

PL seems to be well suited for me as I can get a little TOO aggressive at times....typically when I'm not focused enough to be playing....that's something I'm working on. I noticed it held me back a little on a couple occations, and I was glad it did.... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I, too, am interested in what others have to say on the topic.

[limon]

pl you need to play every street well, you are tested later in the hand more often. becuase of this position is more important and abilty to controll the pot size to your liking.

[ML4L]

Hey turnip,

Sounds like you nailed it to me. To expand on a point or two, a key is to be VERY careful playing drawing hands up front when the money isn't right. As you alluded, in NL, you can get all-in with a draw at any time. But, in PL, you might not have this option. So, one thing that you must avoid is committing a substantial amount of money out of position with a draw (even a very good draw) because if it doesn't come on the turn, you might find that you've pot-stuck yourself and have no bluffing leverage.

Also as you mentioned, I've gotten to the point where I'll play darn near anything on the button against the right opponents. When another player has narrowly defined his hand through his actions and you hold an unknown hand in position, you hold a tremendous amount of power. This is why, as you stated, it is SO important to mix your play up from EP.

And lastly, as you mentioned, manipulating the size of the pot is key in many situations. Anyone who searches for Matt Flynn's 5-10 PLHE posts will find some great examples.

So, again, you hit on all the key points, meaning that I really didn't need to write this post, but it's tough not to when you called me out by name... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I will add one thing for memphis, though. I had shared your belief that PL games online would be tougher than NL games because fish like going all-in and thus play NL. But, a 2+2er convinced me to try the $200 PL on Party, and I find that it is MUCH fishier than the $200 NL.

Mike