5/5 Live Foxwoods (long) 2 hands

[sniperd]

This hand happened at Foxwoods, last Friday. Anybody else there? There was 1 game with each person having thousands on the table, and the other game was more in my league with less money at it. I wear a black visor, and had blueish sunglasses on. Anywho.. here's the first hand:

I had been playing for about an hour and had around $550 in front of me. There is one guy at the table with around $8000, and most are around $900. I am trying to play hands with these 3 kids from Maine. From talking with them, it was their first time at Foxwoods, seem to play a lot online and play little home game tourneys. These also seem to be the kinds of players that think AKos with KQ8 board is good for all your chips in a 5/5 game.

I am in sb with K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Kid from Maine makes it $30 to go. This means, 2 big cards for him. I also know that he will bet the flop about $30 if he misses or has a small piece (done it 5 times so far), and he will check the flop if he gets a good piece (top 2, set, etc.) I plan to flat call (the other players seem to have respect for me and know that I am not calling $30 with trash, so just my call with isolate). So, I call, and it’s heads up.

Flop comes 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] I check to him planning on check raising him all in to stop any kind of draw. But, now something funny happens, I check, and he ponders. Not like a, “how much can I sell this for.” But a, “hm.. I don’t like THAT flop, I gotta move this guy off his draw.” It’s hard to explain, but it just felt like he didn’t want action. He bets $50. Now I start to think about this. I KNOW he is weak.. like, maybe 1 diamond in his over cards weak. So, here is what I decide to do. I feel that a check raise right here will kill all the action. He will probably not even call a minimum check raise, but I feel that he will bet the turn. I just call.

Turn comes 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] . I check planning on calls. He ponders again, and looks nervous. Not the “Oh My God, I have this huge hand” nervous, more the, “I got called? Crap, well, lets fire that 2nd barrel”. He bets $100. Now I feel my read is still good, but what happens if I flat call and the river comes and A? Well, I feel even though there is a lot in there right now, the A is the only thing that will make me not check raise all in on the river, I really feel he has over cards. I flat call again.

River, Ace [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Uh, oh. Oh well, I made my plan, I felt it was the right plan, I am going to stick with it. I check. He still looks like he doesn’t like this, and bets $200. I had already made my decision how to play this on the turn, and don’t want to get pushed out, I call. He groans, he has K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. And says, “Well, that was the only way I could have won that by betting.” Dennis, a solid player down there on my right, is impressed with my play. I whisper to Dennis, “Well, that was the only way I would have made any money, buy letting him bet!”

So, that was my first big hand. How’d I do? If I made a mistake, I feel it’s on the turn to stop the draw or perhaps I should have raised pre flop. I just felt like I had such control and a read on this guy, it was worth running the razors edge.

Now onto my 2nd hand. I am around $850, villain has me covered. I have KK once again in the sb. There are some limpers, so I make it $30, and get 1 caller. It’s an older guy that seems to over value hands, and calls some junk pre flop if he has already limped. So, it’s hard to say what he has. I do know he will call down with top pair, weak kicker or maybe even raise with it!

Flop comes 779 rainbow. I bet $20. I think this is a mistake, I am basically trying to represent weakness, hoping for some action. I am watching him as I bet, and it seems he has not looked at the board yet. He sits up, and leans forward for a betting view.. it feels.. like he is going to raise, but shrugs, and just calls..? This feels weird.

Turn, 6, now the board is 2 tone. I feel, well, lets try and keep this pot small, I bet $20 (mistake again?), and he seems really awake now, and raises me to $80. I think about this and call (ug.. I hate this call, I should have either dumped here or come over the top.) I decided to call and will call up to $100 on the river. I feel that he would bet up to that with top pair, any more he must have 1 pair beat.

River is an off suit 4. I check, and after some thought, he bets $200. I think about this for a long time. I take my sunglasses off ( I wear a black visor and blueish sunglasses sometimes) and think about this. This is the first time I have seen him bet this much at anything. I saw him bet around $100 with a TPBK hand on the river once, but I am not sure what to do. I am trying to read him for tells, and he seems calm but much more awake, he seemed tired before this hand. I ask him, “Care to show me a card to tempt me to call?” He sheepishly smiles and says, “No” as he shakes his head. So, I start to think, would I want to bet $200 here myself? No I would not, and I am not happy about making this call here. I decide that he could have trips or a boat, and it is very unlikey that he has a hand I can beat like TT JJ QQ since he did not raise pre flop. But then I keep thinking how he bet out on the river with his top pair before.. but not this much. I hate to call here, just feels wrong, so I fold it. He mucks and takes the pot. Good play?

It's funny but these hands are pretty similar, but the players were very different. Thoughts?

[sniperd]

Somebody must be able to give advice on these hands?

[turnipmonster]

in hand #1, it's hard to argue with a read. I personally would have checkraised the turn if I was going to play it like that, but I don't like giving cheap cards out of position.

in hand #2, your bet on the turn looks quite weak, and I would expect most anyone with a hand to raise you here.

--turnipmonster

[bobby steels]

sniperd,

it was me you played this hand against. i am surprised by some of your reads on me (i hope you are not grouping all 3 of us from maine into the same category), but if thats how u saw me that is fine. also, you have the flop wrong in your post, it was 9 high giving me top pair decent kicker...

my initial raise preflop was a blind steal. i was running well, up over 500 in less than an hour and feeling good about myself, thus throwing money around a little bit. little did i know this innocent blind steal would be my biggest losing hand of the session...

so i made top pair decent kicker on the flop and felt lucky to have raised with crap and catch a resonably good flop, thus the 50 bet, thinking u had AK/AQ..overcards. with no over cards on the turn, i still felt i had the best hand, and thus bet 100. i realize now that i shold have slowed down as an overpair now seems obvious. also, we had not been at the table that long at the time and didn't really know your table image. this turn bet was my biggest mistake (besides obviously raising in lp with K9).

the river...yeah that was just a bluff, and i probably dind't bet enough to sell it. brunson said once (paraphrasing) that once he puts his money out there, he wont let it go without a fight (that was not close to the terminology he used but i lent ss to someone and caint look it up), and thsu my river bet. i wish i had just let it go, but ill live and learn. anyways it was a nice read, a good hand for you, nice call.

fortunately for me the rest of my session was much better than this hand, and i came out well in the positive. i was overall pretty happy for my first time at these stakes, and plan on making a few more trips to foxwoods soon...maybe ill see ya there.

[AnyutaDva]

I thought you played hand one great. You had the self belief to back up your read with your actions even though it was far from the 'safe' thing to do.

I was a bit confused by the way you played the second hand. You said that you made the bet small because you wanted it to look like a weak bet. So surely the idea is to get raised. However, once you have been raised you don't know where you are in the hand. Did you think he was the type of player who might raise you purely because he thought you looked weak, or was he a guy who only played his hand values?

Having bet the $20 on the turn, if he was a guy who I didn't think was capable of attacking weakness and was purely playing his own cards I would have ditched there and then. With all his shrugging and such on the flop it makes me think he has his hand already. If he didn't have his hand then but wants to take off on the turn it implies he has hit the 6, which I can only think of as being a straight.

[sniperd]

Hi Bobby. Ack! I have been discovered! I certainly wasn't grouping all three of you together, just for the sake of not getting crazy writing about each player. Thanks for the correction on the flop, your plays certainly make more sense. Please don't take anything I said personal, I certainly was not trying to bash you in my post, was just looking for advice on here on my hands. Perhaps I presented my reads too harsh, I basically sensed weakness (for whatever magical reason) with the bets which is why I was calling.

Did all three of you come down together? If so, how did the other fellow so? I know the player to my left got sucked out on for all his chips by that lady. How did the rest of your trip go?

See you at Foxwoods!

P.S. I have also sent you this as a private message, not sure if you would be more likely to check here to there. Please don't take my post as putting ANY of you guys down. I can honestly say you were some of the nicest, most fun players I have played with.

[Zag]

Hi bobby, Welcome to 2+2.

It's great that you would open up and declare yourself to be the victim in a hand, especially one that makes you look like, well, you know. Anyway, that's how you learn, so I think it is a smart thing to do.

Anyway, I am with you on the preflop steal and the flop bet. As you said, the turn bet is questionable, but I think it can still be justified. It is the river bet that is awful. You say that you knew you were bluffing, there, but what better hand did you really expect to fold? With no raise from him, you can't really put him on TT-KK, unless you realize that he made as complete a read on you as he did. (And if you realized that, you'd head back to Maine.) These are the only hands that are ahead of you but might fold, and I just can't see you putting him on one of them.

If he has hung around this long with just overcards, he has hit is now and isn't going to be folding. If he had A7 or something, he has just made aces up and he isn't going to fold. If he had top pair, better kicker, then he just made top two. I can't imagine a hand that you put him on for which that bet made any sense.

[turnipmonster]

excellent analysis! nice to have you on the forum zag.

--turnipmosnter

[bobby steels]

zag- thanks for the response...bobby's just an alias...