Correct to call on this OESD

Wada · #1 06-14-2004, 01:15 PM

How did I do here...Was the flop and turn call correct?

Paradise Poker 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Wada is BB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, Wada checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, Wada checks, MP1 bets, MP2 raises, CO calls, Button folds, SB folds, Wada calls, MP1 3-bets, MP2 calls, CO calls, Wada calls.

Turn: (9 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Wada checks, MP1 bets, MP2 calls, Wada calls.

River: (12 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)

Final Pot: 12 BB

Results in white below: 
Wada shows 6c 7h (straight, nine high).
MP1 shows 5s 5h (three of a kind, fives).
MP2 shows Ts Qs (one pair, queens).
CO shows 4d 4s (three of a kind, fours).
Outcome: Wada wins 12 BB.

Ed Miller · #2 06-14-2004, 01:20 PM

How did I do here...Was the flop and turn call correct?

Yes.

nothumb · #3 06-14-2004, 02:09 PM

What happened on the river? Did you whiff on a check raise?

NT

Bill Smith · #4 06-14-2004, 02:15 PM

All calls look to be correct, though I'm curious if/how that checked through on the river.

easypete · #5 06-14-2004, 02:29 PM

At the time of your call on the flop, the instant pot odds were 11:2 or 5.5:1. You are on an OESD (4.9:1). With 2 cards to come, you will improve to the straight roughly 1 out of 3 times. The call is correct on the flop.

On the turn, you had pot odds of 10:1 to call a 4.9:1 shot. The call is correct here as well.

MastiffPaul · #6 06-14-2004, 02:39 PM

These flop odds (4.9:1) ignore the flush draw, and the possibility that two of his outs aren't clean, though. With only six outs instead of eight, he needs slightly less than 7:1. Considering that, his call on the flop is much more questionable, isn't it? Especially considering that the original raiser could reraise.

Ed Miller · #7 06-14-2004, 02:46 PM

These flop odds (4.9:1) ignore the flush draw, and the possibility that two of his outs aren't clean, though. With only six outs instead of eight, he needs slightly less than 7:1. Considering that, his call on the flop is much more questionable, isn't it? Especially considering that the original raiser could reraise.

No. The flop call is a no-brainer. You have to understand, when you start discounting outs and recalculating in this manner, you are always coming up with a WORST CASE SCENARIO. If the worst case scenario is "questionable" then the average scenario is a no-brainer.

The hands you fear (flush draws) and the actions you fear (reraises... which shouldn't worry you much anyway here) are the exception, not the rule. They aren't rare, but they won't exist in even 50% of the hands you play. This is the consistent error in Brier & Ciaffone's book... they take the worst case and treat it as the average case. That policy has you folding FAR too often.

Wada · #8 06-14-2004, 03:08 PM

For some reason the original conversion got screwd up. I think the dialog from the other players had something to do with screwing up the river results.

Is a check raise on the river a good idea here knowing that MP1 and MP2 had been betting on the turn?

River: (13 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Wada bets, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Final Pot: 17 BB

Results in white below: 
Wada shows 6c 7h (straight, nine high).
MP1 shows 5s 5h (three of a kind, fives).
MP2 shows Ts Qs (one pair, queens).
CO shows 4d 4s (three of a kind, fours).
Outcome: Wada wins 17 BB.