30/60 hand

[Vehn]

Here's a hand I played about 3 months ago. I jotted it down after the session and promptly forgot about it until yesterday when I was driving to the card barn, and it just kinda came in my head. I think the preflop play is interesting and comes up fairly often but is never discussed.

Live game. Loose passive straightforward types limps UTG. Very loose aggressive limps to his left. An MP player limps. LP, a very good but somewhat loose semipro limps. I raise on the button with AdJd. Both blinds call, and its called around to the LP player who makes it 3 bets. I make it 4 bets, and everyone calls.

7 players see a flop of Ah 7d 2h. Blinds check, UTG bets out, UTG+1 calls, both the MP and LP player fold, I call, and both blinds fold. 3 to the turn of the 4h. UTG bets, UTG+1 calls and I call. The river is the 5h. UTG checks disgustingly, UTG+1 bets, and I raise. Comments?

[highlife]

yeah, looks like a nice raise. could very easily cause UTG to fold AK. if UTG+1 3 bets, do you think about folding?

[bobgreen]

One opponent is "loose", the other is "very loose". Will a better hand fold?

If UTG has a better hand, it's probably a low flush, 2-pair, or a set, not AK. So he seems likely to crying call. UTG+1 seems likely to call a single bet closing the action.

Do they both have worse hands? All four aces accounted for and nary a heart between them? Not likely.

I think you lose.

Change UTG to "tight" and you might steal one here.

[Roy Hobbs]

I think you will probably be able to get the UTG player to fold a non-heart hand which may be better than yours, even if he is loose...the four suited board strikes fear into the hearts of even the loosest players, and with two players behind him, he can easily tell himself that one of you has to have a heart.

Given your description of player 2 as loose aggressive, I'm assuming that he will attempt to take a stab here with a non-heart hand often enough that you think you might have the best hand if he calls your raise. Also, there's also the (perhaps small) risk that he folds out a small heart. Given the size of the pot, I like the play...

But you also ask about the preflop play. I like the raise preflop. The fourbet preflop is necessary, I think, if only for potential free cards later. Especially when the cut-off's limp re-raise smells of suited connectors trying to build a big multiway pot...

Nice hand.

RH

[worm33]

I really dont care for the way you played the hand. I rarely ever ever make this kind of play in a big pot at canterbury. I dont think you need to in order to crush the game. You never found out where youre at. I almost would fold the turn I think in some cases. When UTG bets out on the flop with 4 or 5 players or whatever between him and the raiser on a A72 flush draw flop, Wouldnt you agree that his likely hand 95% of the time is a set or a flush draw? Possibly A7 or A2 depending on who the player was. I would have raised the flop to see if I was up against a flush draw. Obvioulsy if he calls he probably has one and will bet out again on the turn if he hits. I think even in big pots like this where folding would seem insane ever, at Canterbury 99% of the time you can figure out where youre at and make big folds.

[lil feller]

I'm not a 30/60 player, but here goes my best interpretation...

This is essentially 3 player pot, UTG, UTG+1 and you. You say that UTG is a "Loose passive straightforward type" so he's probably limping with Axs or a small pair or possibly suited connectors.

UTG+1 is very loose/aggressive and could have anything

The flop bet of UTG screams flush draw (which is unlikely as the Ah is on the board, unless he'll limp with 2 small flush cards), Aces up or a set. The UGT+1 call is really confusing, and I think you may have missed a raise on the flop.

The turn is really interesting UTG bets out again, after the most likely draw gets there, and again this very loose/aggressive player just calls...what did you put him on. I would think that if had a naked heart he'd raise, he'd raise with any ace, or 2 pair or a set, so what did you think he had. I would say the nuts, or absolutely nothing waiting to make a move if the 4th heart comes.

River the UTG telegraphed that his hand was destroyed, so he'll likely fold to 2 bets, but again the UTG+1 play reaks of slowplay and I'd think that the raise you make is good, but you have to fold to a 3rd bet... comments?