Sklansky made me do it

[Ponks]

Well after reading some posts in the high-limit forum I came across this post: Another Simple Question and Simple Answer. Sorry I'm not quite sure how to link it, its not working for me. Anyways, I've never really played the hand like this, but I figured after reading his post I'd give it a try. It seemed to work out well, but it fault dangerous doing it. Do the benefits outweigh the costs? What do you think about the way I played this hand? I'm thinking I shoulda 3-bet the turn cause I'm sure they'd both call and then bet the river when checked to.

Thanks Ponks

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero calls, <font color="666666">7 folds</font>, SB completes, BB checks,

Flop: (3 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (1.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls, <font color="CC3333">SB raises</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Final Pot: 13.50 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 13.50 BB, between SB, BB and Hero.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by Hero (13.50 BB).</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
SB shows Js Ah (two pair, aces and tens).
BB shows 5s 5c (two pair, tens and fives).
Hero shows Qc Tc (three of a kind, tens).
Outcome: Hero wins 13.50 BB. </font>

[BreakEvenPlayer]

I'm not sure what your Sklansky reference is... Regardless, I need you to fold QTs preflop, but now that you're in the hand I'd raise the turn. Looks like SB will cold-call two if not three-bet you because he did a check-raise anyway.

[The Ram]

I don't know if a fold is necessary. The likelihood of being VERY multiway at 2/4 Party games is incredibly high. Consequently, no big deal there IMO.
However, given the way the turn action was, not 3betting in that spot is criminal. You literally burned 2 big bets, possibly more if SB raises and BB calls. You HAVE to 3bet. If you get 4bet, then maybe you can feel concerned and you can call down.

[BreakEvenPlayer]

I might limp with QTs in Yahoo! play money holdem, but that's about it.

[elindauer]

The preflop limp is ok if the game is loose and passive which it probably was. Tough cards to play out of position though, good luck with that.

Your flop check was fine. Reraising the turn is mandatory. The problem is that one or more of your opponents may be on a spade draw, and will pay off a raise now but not on the river. Stick it to 'em on the turn.

As for calling vs raising, you should probably raise the turn first thing. There are a lot of gutshot draws out there, a spade draw, not to mention that a bare ace has two outs against you as well. Many of these won't pay off any more unless they hit, so you should raise immediately. (Very aggressive opponents may bluff again on the river, flat calling against these opponents might be ok.)

my 2 cents.
-eric

[thirddan]

if the table is loose/passive i don't mind playing this hand UTG, but if the table is actually as tight as they were during this hand i think it should be mucked in EP...
On the turn you have to get a raise in there somewhere, after the c/r you should 3bet since the BB is trapped and will most likely call again...

In regards to the Sklansky reference from the mid/high forum the situations are entirely different...in his situation you are a blind and the board is 223, there is little corelation between the two other than you both flop trips...

[Shymon]

fine, the pre-flop play is questionable without a good read on the agressivness of the table. however the negitive ev from that situation is small even if raised behind you preflop. what is a huge loss of ev is not raising the turn. if anything is going to be learned from this hand is that you should play agresively when you have to goods unless you have a good reason not to. in this situation though a prefect card fell, the ace does not hurt you unless it's A10 but that is unlikely at low limit's where a missed check/raise attempt might be likely on the flop. very likely your hand is still good and you should charge the one pair hands the maximum to play aginst you. while i have a feeling the preflop call might have cost you a fraction of a BB, not raising easily cost you 2 whole BB it would appear.

the moral, don't sweat the small stuff when there is a huge hole in the way you played a hand.

[joker122]

In DS's hand you were in the BB when you flopped trips and had players left to act behind you! Checking this flop through is bad.

[Ponks]

Alright, I definitely see the differences now. In the original post I stated I thought my big mistake was not raising the turn again, as everyone agreed. I was playing 8 tables at the time, and I dunno I musta been playing another hand or two at the same time. I always make this raise usually, and I usually bet the flop here too, but figured I'd give this a try with the Sklansky post, but I see the circumstances are completely different.

I almost didnt post this hand, and now I'm glad I did. Normally I dont mind limping QTs UTG really, tables are usually loose enough for me to do it, even though the action preflop indicates otherwise.

Thanks
Ponks

[me454555]

I think you gotta bet the flop here. 9T on the board w/2 blind players. The could have alost any combination of hands that could flop a strait draw. I think you lose too much by giving away a free card here.

P.S. Could someone link the Sklansky post to me, I never got a chance to read it