Poker Office > Poker Tracker???

[Sleepy Weasel]

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but since the information is out there for anyone, soon enough someone will record it - even if we don't.

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This is not a valid argument. "If we don't do it someone else will". I think Winholdem guy used the same kind of argument, and it it just plain wrong. And foremost, it doesnt make it right...

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Yeah, the tone of that argument sounded quite familiar to me too.

[PokerOffice Support]

I can't see the difference compared to other software. PokerOffice is simply put a combination of PokerInspector and PokerTracker. And as I have said before, we are NOT out to provide an unethical product. Why are you so worked up about this? I know you are buddy with Pat at Poker Tracker, but he can stand some competition and this will only be good for the end customer.

[mosta]

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...There is already one site that has a locally stored SQL database for hand histories, and Party is talking with Pat about moving to locally stored hand histories as well to reduce straign on their servers.


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actually Party hand histories are already stored on your computer locally, but only temporarily. The live hand history windows you can pull up for each table read a text file that is stored in you Party folder. It's something with .hh or .hhs. Open one while you are playing, choose notepad to open it. voila, hand histories. Only reason PT can't read those right now is because they do not record all the header information, like date. but mucked showdown cards are in there. the files are deleted when you close Party.

From what I gather skimming the PO board, it can read downloaded hand history files and get mucked showdown cards. i don't know how good their stats or analysis are. So it's the same as PT as far as getting mucked hole cards.

The striking innovation to me (for me) was the on the fly screen reading. Since it doesn't get mucked hole cards, I think it doesn't amount to much. And it may come back to bite PO anyway, because you have to figure that Party is going to start slightly varying screen images to thwart bots. The point will be moot anyway, when PT and PO both start reading the text HH's on the local drive.

I'm not happy about calculating pot vs odds live for players either. Oh well. Hope they won't bother won't care or won't be able to exploit it.

[PokerOffice Support]

Ok, lets take a vote so we can decide what to do with this feature. Inputs please!:

Is it unethical to track a game while not sitting down at the table? (Yes/No)

[Background: PokerOffice provides a tool for automation of hand histories: This means that instead of downloading hand histories and putting these in a database, the user can track a game in real time which is automatically stored in the database. However is it ethical to do this while not actually sitting down at the table?]

[mosta]

I don't think it's unethical to something yourself that reads the screen while you are asleep (or downloads hand histories you didn't play), so I don't think it is to buy it either. But then I share PT databases with friends to get stats on players, so maybe I have no morality.

but I really don't like live advice on playing a hand. it's like having your friend who is an expert looking over your shoulder at your cards and giving advice--"plays well multi-way", "pot is big enough to draw to gutshot".

[DogRockets]

My thoughts are that the program does nothing more than Holdem Inspector added to Poker Tracker. With the exception of updating in real time. Nothing wrong with this. As far as being able to watch a table, as long as Party allows it, there's nothing wrong with it. If you want to see what Party Poker's true stance is on capturing game data from games you are not involved in, try starting the client, open up a few tables and start downloading game histories. Do this for a few days and you will find your pc locked out and requiring a call to Party Pokers Alerts team to explain. As fas as sitting and watching a table, you can do that. Poker Office only makes it easier to obtain data that Party allows you to obtain. Keep the feature in the program. I have no problems with it. If Poker tracker had a feature that auto-filled the game time tables, it would be just as beneficial as Poker Offices features.

[Luv2DriveTT]

I use his product but I am no buddy of Pat's. If this is an attempt to discredit my argument, it will fail. The support team has sent my complaint to the management, the management probably will not want the headache of added risks that Poker Office provides. I said it before, and I'll say it again - I like Poker Office, I think allof it's other features are fantastic. But as a developer you stepped over the line by allowing users to capture hands if they are not playing.

Put it this way, if Party does not at least change their terms of service to forbid capturing hands electronicaly unles the user is playing within the game, then Party is setting itself up for a huge class action lawsuit. Although Party is not located in the US, if they did not respond to such an action the courts could potentially take actions such as freezing any of Party's financial assets. Trust me (I know you don't), its a risk they would not want to take.

PS: Is your company based in the USA? If so, you may have violated the DCMA. [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

[Soleo]

I just read this thread but I can't understand what's wrong with recording games and action when you're out. No, I understood all points, but I can't understand intentions and moving power of this question and discussion. Do you Luv2DriveTT or somebody else think that this info recorded will make bad player better or good player is not able to quickly reckon same info in 1-2 orbits in game with player-in-question? You know - bad will stay bad even with recorded info and good one still may play well without this tool. So don't you think that this somewhat aggressive discussion is more of theoretical and ego kind now than really making the difference in future of poker world?
Just my $0.02.

[lowroller]

Leave it the way it is. The info is public for anyone who wants to watch and take notes. It's a little over the top, yeah, but in a couple of years (or sooner), it will probably be mainstream.

[TimM]

On the Internet, 11 days feels like 11 weeks.