Pokerstars $530 sunday tourney - happy for feedback

[Jason Strasser]

Cferejohn,

I'm lost conceptually on this one idea.

[ QUOTE ]
If your stack was just a bit less, say 60K, I think the stop-n-go would clearly be the superior play, since then an all-in is going to be called with just about anything, and can probably get some additional folding equity. Here, however, if you think a) there is a good chance he's got "any two cards" OR b) an all-in might make him lay down an ace or a pair (again: I doubt it), than I like a push fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you had 60k, your opponent is essentially pot committed. He cant fold with anything once the flop comes down. The odds are too good--arent they? Don't you want to have some punch left over when you stop and go?

[fnurt]

You might be right about A7. It's all just a question of degree. If the short stack were truly short, like 10% of my stack or less, I imagine I'd be calling with A2. In this case, where the larger stack risks losing about 1/3 of his stack, whether he would draw the line at A5, A7, A9 or wherever is just a matter of taste.

[cferejohn]

[ QUOTE ]
Cferejohn,

I'm lost conceptually on this one idea.

[ QUOTE ]
If your stack was just a bit less, say 60K, I think the stop-n-go would clearly be the superior play, since then an all-in is going to be called with just about anything, and can probably get some additional folding equity. Here, however, if you think a) there is a good chance he's got "any two cards" OR b) an all-in might make him lay down an ace or a pair (again: I doubt it), than I like a push fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you had 60k, your opponent is essentially pot committed. He cant fold with anything once the flop comes down. The odds are too good--arent they? Don't you want to have some punch left over when you stop and go?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, the idea of the stop-n-go, as I understand it (I think it was WORLD CHAMPION Greg Raymer who championed it being used in this manner) is that the following should be true:

1. You have a hand which is likely to be a "coinflip" or a slight dog.

2. Your stack is such that your opponent would call a preflop push from you with pretty much anything.

3. You have enough chips that an opponent might fold postflop to an all-in bet.

For this situation, 1 is certainly true, but I'm not sure about 2. The considered opinion of at least several responders is that you could push an opponent off of at least a weak ace preflop here. With 60K preflop, you'd end up pushing ~50K into a pot of ~70K. That might get your opponent to fold a better hand every once in a while (i.e. if he raised with A7 and the flop came 2 J 8 or something like that).

I think with this stack, it's close. If you really think your opponent will lay down a fair number of aces, and maybe a few small pairs preflop, I think you've got to push this. If you think he will call with any ace or any pair preflop, than a stop-n-go looks good, since you should be able to push him off a better hand post flop some of the time (i.e. in this case if the flop misses both of you).

The min-raise makes the reasonable stack size to do this a little more restrictive. With this same 84K stack and a 2.5-3x the BB raise, I definitely would agree with the stop-n-go, since then it is very unlikely the opponent would lay down to an all-in, whatever he had.

[sdplayerb]

You can be potcomitted to a reraise preflop since you are getting 2.5-1 odds on your call, like say you have A9.
But then I pull a stop and go with KQ, the flop comes JT2.
So you have A9 with that flop, and the stopngoer now pushes in. If you have 3-4x the BB or so, you are not going to call. You have to figure you are behind, and can't know the person is pulling a stop n go.
So now you fold, while preflop had he reraised you would have called.

Of course you should never get stopngo'd, since you should have just pushed in in the first place.

So, you are wrong in the assumption that since the person would be potcommitted preflop, that they would be post flop. 2.5-1 isn't good odds with 2 cards to come and you have 1 over card.

[FlyWf]

This is IMO, a pretty obvious push. A lot of people are being kind of result oriented, you have no idea what the guy has. Given the situation, I don't think you can rule out any two cards, and KQ looks good there.

Against a reasonable selection of hands the raiser could have, a push preflop wins you the small pot probably about as often as the stop-n'-go, but it gives you a chance to double up.

[sdplayerb]

I agree to push here, and said that.
The guy is not pot committed, that is why I push as well.