My first conscious use of the stop and go.

[BradleyT]

I thought that was called weak-tight.

[ggano]

If that's the definition of stop-n-go then the stop-n-go is stupid, and not worth discussing. So that definition isn't very useful. What's wrong with defining stop-n-go as, the intent preflop is to push on the flop, and most of the time that's what you do. But, after you see the flop and you think the push is unlikely to work, it's perfectly fine to say, well that didn't work and give up.

[huge]

well, you guys all outrank me, but I have to say I come down on the side of "it IS a Stop n Go", if it's your intention to push on the flop except for rare cases.

Is anyone really going to go ahead and push on the flop if they make a full house or quads on the flop? I suspect most of us would change gears then and allow the opponent to bet, or allow the opponent a chance to make a flush or a straight, or allow the opponent to think we're weak because we bet the turn instead of the flop etc etc etc. In that situation we don't push because we *DON'T* want a fold.

Likewise on a flop that, for whatever reason, seems particularly likely to have hit our particular opponent, it seems like a good idea to hit the abort button. As has been pointed out, you can't just hit the abort button because the flop looks "scary" ... it's going to look scary to the other guy too, that's why Stop n Go works sometimes. But if I have a read on my opponent and I have good reason to think the flop is likely to have hit him, I'm gonna say "oops" and abandon ship.

I think this is still a Stop n Go. It's not just a call where I see if the flop has hit *ME* ... it's a call with the intention of pushing unless the flop (A) hits me in the head with a sledge hammer or (B) VERY likely hit my opponent.

Obviously this is just a semantic argument. I can define it one way and you can define it another. But I think that the stopNgo that I'm talking about is closer to the purists' version than it is to "call for value and see if I hit the flop", so for my money it makes sense to define it as such.

I've been thinking about Stop n Go a lot lately and trying to add it to my toolkit. I'm glad it's being discussed. It seems to me that a more interesting question is WHEN do you hit the abort button (OK I'll add "if ever" for the purists). I certainly agree that if you're aborting 50% of the time you're missing the point of the Stop n Go.

-Huge

[patrick dicaprio]

commendable as it might be to try to use the play I dont think you can just blindly make it on this flop. firstly there is teh SB to deal with. This alone when coupled with the flop means that you probably should abandon the play in your mind before the flop. once he calls there arethree players and before you see any flop cards you know that a push in will not likley win the pot if the flop is a good one. which is what happened.

secondly your opponent is a large stack. so you also know that if you push in with 900 on the flop you are offering him 21-9 to call. with this flop even if he has a draw or two overcards to the flop he is correct to call given that he can knock you out if he is right. plus he may have a hand that is better than that.

Pat

[ddubois]

I'm bumping this thread, because I wanted 1) to add stop'n'go to my arsenal, 2) to learn when to use it, 3) to see if anyone has settled on a definition of it, and 4) to recognize when it might be being used against me.

I think I tried to use a stop'n'go this weekend, but really, I had no idea what I was hoping to accomplish. So, exactly when am I supposed to use a stop'n'go? I'm having trouble seeing how stop'n'go wouldn't "stink like an obvious bluff"? And how you wouldn't only get called when you are massively behind. Anyone know of any reading materials on the play? URLs / books?

[poboys]

[ QUOTE ]
I am with you, but I wonder if this hand might be the rare exception. This flop hits virtually EVERY hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

As I read this, I assumed that the SnG was going to fail because the flop hit the SB not the PF raiser.

SB puts T250 in the pot. What the hell did he have? Maybe a small PP. Interresting...

[shejk]

"You would prefer him to call since you are the clear favorite. This is a case where both players played the flop correctly."

I would not if I was in the tourny. My nerves would love to see him fold, and so would my bankroll. Of course in a nl cashgame I would agree with you.

[kurtcobain]

anyone else think jedi should have just folded preflop, instead of risking 1/4 his stack with a coinflip at best?

[hhboy77]

once the sb called the raise, it became a clear fold in my book. however, had the sb called the stop 'n go would be a totally legitimate option.

for instance, if the people to jedi's left were not easy to steal blinds from. this may be his only chance to make some chips and survive to the money. many people have advocated that jedi simply fold and it may have been the best move. however, since we weren't playing the tourney, we don't know.

[AA suited]

[ QUOTE ]
anyone else think jedi should have just folded preflop, instead of risking 1/4 his stack with a coinflip at best?

[/ QUOTE ]

yup, with 8 people left and blinds=50, i fold in a heart beat with 77. why fight him now over 50 chips? stay tight and wait for better cards to start a fight if you're not shortstacked.

in low limt sng's at party, they will try to steal blinds, but they will also go over the top with AA. i would call a 2bb raise with 77, but not much more. and certainly not call a 6bb.