good check here?

[faughtandone]

its fairly early in this 100+9 tourney and i just lost a big hand with QQ vs A9 when a guy spiked an A on turn after making two bad calls so i think that the table thinks i'm on tilt so that affected my decison on this very next hand.
i figured this guy either had nothing or a monster, and the way the hand went down i just couldn't put him on a monster due to the draws out there, i figured even if he flopped a set he would try to push me out on the turn. however he was fairly new to the table so i didn't have a good read on him. part of me thinks i should have pushed here seeing as i was fully prepared to call an all in here on the river.
thoughts, comments?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (10 handed)

MP2 (t470)
MP3 (t2835)
CO (t2660)
Hero (t1645)
SB (t2885)
BB (t1810)
UTG (t3025)
UTG+1 (t855)
UTG+2 (t1380)
MP1 (t1880)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls t50, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls t50, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls t50, Hero calls t50, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t300) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(6 players) </font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets t175, UTG+2 folds, CO calls t175, Hero raises to t400, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds, CO calls t225.

Turn: (t1275) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
CO checks, Hero bets t750, CO calls t750.

River: (t2775) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
CO checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: t2775

[Martin Aigner]

Faughtandone,

what did you put your opponent on? I´d give him most likely the T9, which makes him an openender on the flop and a pair + straightdraw on the turn. Since the pot is already pretty big I´d move in on the river expecting a crying call by a pair of Ts. If we both had more chips on the river I might consider checking.

Anyway, I think that on the turn you should go either all in or check. If he checkraises you there is no way that you can fold (Pot is 1275 befor you bet, after the bet it´s 2025, and you have 445 left), so why not move all in right away. Don´t give him odds for a draw, esp. when you are potstuck anyway.

Best regards

Martin Aigner

[Piers]

I would make my decision on the flop and probably go all in, taking the view that if I can not go all in here then my decision to call preflop was wrong.

I can not see the point in rasing 225 into a 825 leaving me with 1150. I feel this gives all the options to my opponents, I would rather get them to make the last guess.

[patrick dicaprio]

i am relatively new to no limit holdem, and play in low entry tourneys for the most part. is calling with a hand like KJ on the button when there are EP callers a typical play? my first thought was that this may have been a loose call. there will be six players in an unraised pot and your hand could easily finsh second best here.

that said, i think you are right that if he had a set he woudl try to push you out on the turn. there are enough draw possibilities and the pot is unraised so he has to be concerned that a draw can hit on the river if not the turn. if you were willing to call all in on the river then you may as well push on the turn. if he only has a draw then pushing is almost certainly the correct play since there is a good possibility he will call as a dog.

Pat

[faughtandone]

well. it turns out that he called me down w/ A5 offsuit and i won the pot and went on to finish 16 and in the money.
as to my calling preflop the table was relatively passive preflop and since i had a big connector i decided to take a cheap flop in position with high implied odds.
had there been a bet and raise in front i was prepared to muck however with a small bet and a smooth call i decided to make a small raise and see where i was. if the original bettor comes over the top of me then i can get away relatively cheap. at this point i wanted to either get some chips or go to a more profitable situation (in these tourneys all the money is in the top five so i don't play for the goal of just finishing in the money). I didn't put this guy on either KQ or AK as he was a pretty consistent raiser with these big cards and if he flopped a set more power to him he was getting my stack. also i didn't put him on a draw after he smooth called the flop because i had seen him do a lot of checkraising on draws....seeing as there was a good possiblity that he thought i was playing on tilt i figured there were a much wider range of possible hands he could be calling with. i agree that my optimal play would have been pushing on the turn and i still can't remember what my thinking was at the time that stopped me from doing that, because that is my normal play, however that being said i am still wondering which is a better +EV play on the river....checking or pushing.

[dmk]

Checking is better than pushing. The only hands that will call your push are ones that beat you. So you're only folding hands that you can already beat. You win the same amount of chips by checking and beating them in a showdown, and you don't lose the rest of your chips if you do in fact have the worst hand. In this case, checking is the better option to pushing.