Pokerstars $530 sunday tourney - happy for feedback

[Limpfold]

After lots of struggle and being shortchipped throughout the tourney I find myself at final table in the tourney.
I have ~120k chips with chipleader at ~320k.
9th pays $5900 8th jumps up to $9200 and theres a smallstack of ~60k who starts in the BB (blinds 6k-12k).
I figure I won't play anything but solid starting hands until the shortstack either is out or doubled up.
He bust out early on and after putting in blinds I'm the shortstack with 100k.
I get dealt only junk except an AQo I muck when a tight player raise UTG.

The payout structure is pretty steep (8th 9200-7th 12.900-6th 16.600----1st 92.500) so I had hoped I could eventually pick up a spot without playing. However the field evens out to the point where the smallest stack next to mine is 150k.
After posting the smallblind I have 84k left when everyone fold to ~300k stack on the button who raise 24k.
I havent played a hand so far on the final table and look down on KsQc.
I'm fairly sure buttonraiser is stealing and I ponder if I should fold call or raise.
I thought it was a decent chance of him folding to a reraise so I popped him all-in.
I don't think fold in this spot is such a good idea, a round is 14.400 and with 84k everyone is looking to knock me out.
After some pondering he calls and shows A7o, flop comes K34 but turn is the ace and I bust out at 8th.

Any feedback would be appreciated, should I just fold? stop and go?

Been a lurker for some 4-5 years but this is the first post so please be gentle! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[DOTTT]

Hi Limpfold,
WELCOME ABOARD! You picked a great time to post, because I watched the hand take place, and once it was completed I asked myself what would I do under the same circumstances. My conclusion, was I would push in as well. Given your read on the button, and the range of hands he'd raise here I'd expect to take down this pot without a call. Congratulations on your final table appearance.

[gojacketz]

I don't think there is another choice, you have to push in here. Tough luck, but sounds like you had a good run.

Tight utg raiser when you had AQo, would he open raise with TT, JJ, QQ in that situation? How big of an ace would he need to open raise? Were you in the BB on that hand?

Gojacketz

[NLfool]

been in this spot many times. I just call it now and then push on the flop. Same thing just giving yourself the extra chance of him folding

[TheGrifter]

He's got enough of a stack here that the raiser will consider folding preflop to a raise. I too like a call here, but for different reasons.

At this point everyone is looking to steal a few pots and pick up a few pots while avoiding big altercations. In this spot the raiser could have any ace, any pair, or any two face cards.

If you call here and push on any flop that doesn't contain an ace you're probably going to maximize your chances of taking down a big pot. Small pairs and aces will fold. Hands like KJ & QJ are dominated and may pay you off postflop if you both catch a piece.

Also, if an Ace does flop you can still get away from the hand. KQ is not a very good all in hand. It is a good hand to see a flop with and play accordingly. Although in some situations you will be in the lead even if your opponent calls, you are much more likely to win the pot unconctested on the flop, and that is the real goal.

[Limpfold]

Think I am with Grifter on this one, I asked some friends (whose play I very much respect) about their opinion and a few said push, few said call.
The major advantage with pushing is the reraise is more than potsized so a good number of the times opponent will fold here.
I don't quite agree on the number of hands you put him on here, remember he got 300k+ and it's folded to his button.
A guy playing his stack will raise without checking their cards in that spot.
What I don't like with calling is that it could suck the BB in the hand and if he's in I don't like to push in on the flop acting first if I miss the flop.

About folding the AQ, I was in midposition and the player UTG had been playing very patient and solid, he was also in a good chip position and came in for 36.000, he won't fold his hand if I raise him another 55 or so and I'm 97% sure AQ is dog here. There are better spots than this I think.

[Big Dave D]

As he is getting roughly 2:1 on his final call here it is going to be hard for him to lay down many hands. Also, he is not going to be badly hurt by calling. These factors combined make a lot of Stars players make that kind of call. And to be fair, on the range of hands you could be raising it is probably correct to do so, assuming he thinks you reraise with any pair, KQs and most aces.

The call and bet the flop play can be a hard one. Its hard to bet the flop even when you've completely missed, but that's the only way to make the play. You should not be thinking about calling and seeing where you are...its an auto bet.

All in all, a fold isnt so bad either. That way you will get to make the first raise and give the blinds a tough decision - they will not have good odds for calling your allin bet, unless very strong.

gl

Dave

[fnord_too]

Wow, that's a thinker. I'm not a huge fan of pushing here, because KQ is a dog to any ace, and any ace will likely call. I like calling and pushing on any flop a little more than pushing pre flop, and may like calling and pushing on any non ace flop a little more. Let's look at stop and go vs. push on any flop (I'm thinking on paper here).

If an Ace comes on the flop:
If he has an ace you were probably doomed either way, if he had a small pair, you may be able to steal the pot since an ace calling pre flop is believable.

If an ace doesn't come, you have either top pair good kicker or two overcards. A push here will probably make most aces fold if the undercard didn't pair, and maybe even middle/bottom pair top kicker. This is the first hand you would have voluntarily played at the final table so you should get some respect.

If the button had a pocket pair or flopped top pair or calls with an ace you still would have outs.

Folding isn't horrible here too. Neither is pushing.

All things considered, I like calling and pushing. I think it gives you a little more chance to win the pot. (I may even call and check fold if an ace comes on the flop, since I may be drawing dead to runner runner at that point.)

What a great hand to think about.

[Big Dave D]

If you call you can't check pass if an ace comes. The whole point of the play is to use the right of first bluff and make him pass hands he would be probably correct in calling and would have called preflop. If you pass you have also just effectivly crippled yourself, leaving only 4-5 BB. If you find it hard to bet out, then just cover up the part of the screen that has the cards on it and go allin [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

gl

Dave

[bouh]

how much whould you bet on the flop if he only call the preflop raise and MISS on the flop? he is the short stakes and will only have 60k$ left on the flop. The pot will be larger than 60k with the ante.
Betting like 2 BB will seems weak (but he keep half his chips). The button will most likely push him all in. only a pot size bet seems ok to me (so he will be allin). so if he has to bet the flop whatever come (and go allin) why not pushing allin on the preflop and perhaps have his opponent folding on the preflop ?

I hope you undertand me, english and me aren't friend .. yet !


bouh.