Not Losing To a Fish

[BigBiceps]

raise more preflop.

bet more on the flop.

go all-in on the turn.

... if you were asking for advice.

[natedogg]

Sharingan : The great NL HE players are great because they have the balls to play.

Yes, but it doesn't even take any balls to move in against a draw when he's got only one card to come. That's elementary. If you're not willing to do that, you should not be gambling at all. Go buy some bonds.

TAFKAn

[NotAClue]

I have started playing NL only recently (~2500 hands in PT) so I know the trepidation of getting sucked out on. That being said, you might as well have folded your QQ on the flop against this opponent. If it's a rainbow board he's not going to call your bet, so there's little point in betting. On the other hand, with a two-tone board you're playing too passively to make any money off it. If you're philosophy is why risk any more money against an opponent who's a 5:1 underdog on the turn, why risk that $5 on the flop?

[bygmesterf]

[ QUOTE ]
As to how do I know he's a fish, (just call ME a fish next time instead of putting it in quotes) I saw him for over an hour make obviously wrong calls (calling an all-in w/ 2 pair and 4 flush on board after the TURN w/ 4 players). He also chased countless pots.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
But, I've been there, and I know how it is. I remember years ago when I started playing 7stud in the casino, I remember checking my two pair hands to the river because they're all just going to draw to their flushes anyway, so why give them my money. Obviously, this is incorrect strategy.

(snip)

Push the turn, hope he calls. You win everything 3 out of 4 times. But if you lose, you do it again next time, and again, and again. Hammer him until you take his stack.


[/ QUOTE ]

The key thing is to attack drawing hands at the weakest point of their draw. In hold'em on the turn,In 7stud on 5/6th street, in Draw/Lowball in the Predraw betting.

Except in Omaha, and to a smaller extent in stud, drawing contests are very lopsided. The Made hand is a big favorite to win the hand.

In hold'em a drawing hand has 2 shots at completion. If they don't make it on the turn, then they are 4-1 Against with one card to come. The turn is the time to get the money in, they have to improve to win, you don't.

What you want to avoid is getting all the money in on the flop. Because that gives the draw the most value for his money, even though he is not favored to win the hand. If he makes on the turn, you pass, if he misses, you shove all in. Now the draw is getting the minimum value for his draw.

The solution to swings in NL is that you have alot of cash in reserve and don't put all of it on the table all at once. And you must accept that sometimes you will lose a hand and thats going to be expensive.

I used to play alot of PL Draw Hi. One time I had 9999x, and the other person had 4567(h), I raised 3/4th of the pot predraw. After the draw all the money went in, and I lost $80, which had taken me about 6 hours to accumulate in a 25/50cent PL Draw game. He hit a 2 outer to win. But I would gladly do it over again. Win between $14 to $28 40 times, lose $80 twice.

[Macedon]

Zeero3,

I wonder...how do you feel about Bluffing? Do you ever throw in money when you feel like you can muscle-out your opponent? From reading your post, I would guess that you rarely bluff.

Your comments and your play style (on that one hand) leads one to believe that you play Tight-Passive. Your opponent, from what you've described of him, appears to play Loose-Passive.

The obvious change you need to make is to lose the Passivity and become more Aggressive. Not only should you put your opponents into a position of making an incorrect call [to your bets], but you should also work towards building up a reputation of strength; that is, you want those Loose-Passive/Aggressive players to fear you.

If you do, it is a win-win situation for you---you beat them when you have good cards (Pocket Queens), and you chase them out when you have mere overcards.

[josie_wales]

Hi zeero, and welcome to 2+2,

Preflop: Not bad, but perhaps $2.50 or a $3 raise would be in order.

Flop: You almost certainly have the best hand here, and yet you under bet the pot on a board that is showing draws for many hands. OESD, flush draws, gut shots or even TP with a chance at trips or two pair.

You need to bet a bit larger on the flop. $10-$12 should do the trick.

Your bet of $5 dollars does this: puts $14 in the pot and makes someone call a $5 getting nearly 3-1 odds. Many players will take those odds on a flush/str8 draw --- regardless of if it is correct or not.

For the size of the game, you should be happy to take it down now. AND happy if someone incorrectly calls your over-bet of the pot. BET LARGER.

TURN: Checking is Catastrophic. Horrific. You CANNOT give a free card. You are giving him literally infinite odds at his draw. You need to again bet large, as the only hands that beat you are 4-6/6-9/7-8(not likely)or 9T (possible).

Again bet out pot-sized to pot+ sized.

RIVER: The play of the hand up to this point puts you in this position -- a horrible one. There are now many more hands that beat you. However, giving your play, I doubt the player would check a winning hand in this position since you havent even been betting.

However, I cannot see any lesser hand calling you. Perhaps a pair of Jacks. Id value bet the river.

Josie Wales

[zeero3]

I agree with you 100% here IN LIVE GAMES. In Party Poker I find being passive until the time is right is when the money comes: pure nuts and close to it. In live games/tournaments, being aggressive is extremely important, but it just doesn't cut it on PP. I am solely in it to build a profit: slowly but as SURELY as possible. I was not about to push the stack on a guy I KNOW is a fish--it would hurt my wallet as well as my head....

I just find it more profitable to play slightly more passive online than in live games.... I have ALL DAY if I so choose online to make a big move.

[zeero3]

You do know where I'm coming from and thanks for the post. You're right that I made the wrong check on the turn and riv, but I am more focused on winning the more definite pot than losing the one I WAS winning because it may be too hard to let go after the hit.

[zeero3]

I never cry, I do like Teddy Pendergrass says: "Think I betta let it go"

[Prevaricator]

Don't check the turn if you know you're ahead. If you let chasers see a free river, you are giving them odds to beat you.