JQo, flopped top pair, 2 bets to me.

joker122 · #1 05-21-2004, 07:01 PM

The only read I have is that UTG+1 called down with a 77 on a K high board after me and another player were in a raising war. This fact is pretty much irrelevant.

What do you think about this preflop limp? Better yet, what about the flop fold?

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, Hero calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB folds, BB checks.

Flop: (5.33 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players) 
BB checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero folds, CO folds, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.66 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players) 
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, UTG calls.

River: (6.66 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players) 
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 8.66 BB

Results in white below: 
UTG shows Jh 6h (one pair, jacks).
UTG+1 shows 9d Ad (high card, ace).
Outcome: UTG wins 8.66 BB. 

Huh?

biggambler · #2 05-21-2004, 07:11 PM

The preflop call is very weak after only two limpers. You need at least 4 callers to even think about maybe possilbly going in.You then get top pair on the flop and fold????? Most likly they are raising to see the river for free with four clubs. If you are going to fold here, then don't play this handat all in the first place.

JohnShaft · #3 05-21-2004, 07:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What do you think about this preflop limp? Better yet, what about the flop fold?

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I think they were both wrong.

The limp is too little too early.
And if I have this hand in this spot I am 3-betting the flop.
[I agree with biggambler in otherwords. If you don't 3-bet this flop don't play this hand.]

So I think they were both the wrong plays. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

LAGmaniac · #4 05-21-2004, 07:24 PM

PF: I limp here, but I am a little loose pf. I guess hands like this are why some people muck this pf.

Flop: A three-bet may have been called for here even though the pot is pretty small and the board is ugly. There are a lot of worse flops for JQo.

Joe826 · #5 05-21-2004, 07:24 PM

Wow, I personally think this limp is fine in MP after 2 limpers, assuming the table isn't unusually aggressive. I don't think there is anyway you can get away from this hand on the flop.

joker122 · #6 05-21-2004, 09:12 PM

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Most likly they are raising to see the river for free with four clubs.

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You think UTG+1 is raising for a free card with 3 players to act behind him? That doesn't make any sense.

EDIT - I just saw you said "see the river for free." I still don't think that's a feasible play here though.

Jim Easton · #7 05-21-2004, 11:13 PM

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You think UTG+1 is raising for a free card with 3 players to act behind him?

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Yes, many will raise any flush draw there, with no regard to shutting out players behind them.

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That doesn't make any sense.

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He could also be raising with the ace-high flush draw to shut out players behind him to clean-up the ace outs.

joker122 · #8 05-21-2004, 11:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, many will raise any flush draw there, with no regard to shutting out players behind them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting, I suppose I give players in this spot to much credit.

gamblore99 · #9 05-21-2004, 11:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The preflop call is very weak after only two limpers. You need at least 4 callers to even think about maybe possilbly going in.You then get top pair on the flop and fold????? Most likly they are raising to see the river for free with four clubs. If you are going to fold here, then don't play this handat all in the first place.

[/ QUOTE ]

100%. Under these conditions this is the best flop you can hope for. why would u call preflop and fold when u get what u want. if u play this hand preflop u have to 3 bet the flop