how bad was this call? my freind said it was worst call he has seen!

[Prickly Pete]

[ QUOTE ]
I have seen many posts like this and my general feeling is that most players misunderstand the situation, then they go to twodimes, find out that they were a small underdog, or even a favourite, clap their little hands and move happily on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure if you were badgering my response here, but I think we agree. I was trying to look at the multiple hands he might be against. And with the somewhat odd situation (with all the possible draws, etc), I find it's useful to use twodimes to verify the %s.

And yes, I also agree 100% that the guy who calls a huge allin with 33 against AK made a stupid call despite the fact he was "ahead".

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Your call is not terrible. Not even bad. You're chip leader, will not bust out if you lose, you're getting well over 8-5 from the pot, and you're the favorite to win the hand unless your opponent holds the T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] which kills 3 of your outs. And that all doesn't even factor in the fact that an A or a T may be an out. And if he has AT, you're freerolling your flush draw.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

I think your point is fine with a different chip position and read. The worst situation is when his opponent has a made straight or flush. I agree that he doesn't win here 100% of the time he hits his hand, but with his chip lead, he can afford to take the chance.

[stupidsucker]

I think its a great call.

Is this a great call all the time? NO.

Several small factors make it a great call.

1)You are chip leader
2) the blinds are still very small
3) you are left with 800 a fine amount to claw back in(most of the time I have less then 800 at this point because I have folded everything thus far)
4)The most important imo.. you had a read on this guy.. I always trust my reads. You read him as a loose moron.
----because of this it could be an all out bluff making you a huge favorite. AND even if you lose (which you did) You gave the chips to the person you want to have them.. when you have a hand again, he will be begging to give them back to you.

raising with ATo on the button though...? got to say dont do that imo, not even if its suited.

also for the most part, stay away from calling with draws, normally this is bad.

[triplc]

[ QUOTE ]
he went on to say that was one of worst calls that he has ever seen me make. I said i realize it wasnt the best call, but i had lots of outs. I just did not want to sit on my chips and try to make the money. But i guess i did screw up. not really sure what i was thinking now that i think about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

While I don't think this was a terrible call, I think you can probably wait for a better spot than this to try and build up your stack.

If you fold here, you have 2300 chips remaining, and the blinds are still only 15/30. You can afford to sit back and watch another 10-20 hands and still have in the neighborhood of 2000 chips.

The other thing is that maniacs are infinitely more dangerous (I guess we all are, now that I think about it) when they have a huge stack.

You are the chip leader, a good player, and you do not have much the best of it here (unless you're up against a bluff). Why not fold this one, be patient, and wait until you've got this guy in your sights with a big hand and trap him.

Still, I'd have a tough time laying this one down as well. I think it's about 60/40 to fold. But I tend to play conservatively with a big stack early.

[Gildersneeze]

[ QUOTE ]
I ended up in fourth place when my QQ got busted by J9! ouch.

[/ QUOTE ]Jeez, you and me both. We had a rattled guy at a home tourney last night shortstacked and going all-in hand after hand. He ended up doubling through the chip leader, putting me on the shorty.

Well, he pushed all in and I had JTo and folded it (I was going to make that move if he folded, because the BB was a weak player, and the SB had already folded out of turn). Surprisingly enough, the BB called it. I would have won with a Queen-High Straight from the flop. "ugh, there's better hands to go broke on in a tourney than JTo," I told myself.

So I think "dammit, as soon as I get a hand that's worth it, I'm setting him all in."

Sure as hell, the VERY NEXT HAND is A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Well, sh*t, how do you argue with that? I'm under the gun, so I just call the blinds, seeing if this maniac (BB in this hand) would raise. He just checks.

Flop: 8JJ rainbow. SB checks; BB checks; I move All-in, SB folds, BB calls.

He turns over F**king J8o, and I finish in fourth, which of course, is ye olde bubble. That's what I get for trying to slowplay Aces down four handed on the shortstack in a tourney: The Big Blind Special.

Of course, it also may be what I get for mentioning "man, if there's one thing I can't STAND, it's finishing on the bubble in a tourney" right before we started.

[NotMitch]

I don't think the calls is bad really, but I hate the preflop play.

[t_petrosian]

I'm not sure I completely agree here with what most people say. Preflop play was wrong - I will grant you that. But after the flop, in the context of the tournament itself, I'm not sure if the call was appropriate. I think it is a coin toss, however, and probably defines the kind of player you are. You DID read your opponent as a maniac, so that weighs in. Also, you had plenty of outs. That being said, as chip leader, you may not want to play drawing hands with a ton of chips. Just sit back and wait for big cards. I have made similar calls, and I could defend them statistically, as I think you can here. However, one must look at a call like this in the context of your overall intentions - if halfway through a tourney, I came to you and said, "I'll give you a 55% chance to double up your chips, but the other 45% will bust you out." What do you say? If you say take the 55% with "the best of it," then don't gripe when you get busted out 9 out of 20 times. There are professionals who play this way, and there are professionals who take these things into account and play more conservatively. It's a coin toss, and it's not a "horrible" call by any stretch of the imagination. I would fold myself, but that's just me.

Finally, that you had 2400 chips and would be left with 800 if you were beaten, the call becomes even less horrible. If you lost the hand, you still have a reasonable chance. Tell your friend he's wrong - PERIOD. If he wants to critique your play, tell him to look pre-flop with two limpers in front when you raised.

[BettnTibetn]

honestly i think you played that totally wrong. Preflop raising to 100 is totaly wrong with A10 off suit. And why risk your whole stack when you are the chip leader after the flop. when he has a set it means you have fewer outs then you thought you had. but you never know if u say he was a maniac. If he just had a pair you would have had soooo many more outs.