Common Situation

[andyfox]

But David said "typical" opponents. Actually, in my game, typical opponents wouldn't bet and raise in front of me when I raised pre-flop. And I think "typical" is very different in Vegas than in L.A.

But I figure I have about a 20% chance of winning this hand on my cards, provided I get to the river, and another 10% to win it by stealth. So I 3-bet. I probably lose the small blind and now I get checked to by the big blind on the turn. A queen would be a good turn card to bet and "steal" the pot.

And it'll teach 'em to bet into me again . . .

Andy

[George Rice]

I think it's worth seeing another card. It's unlikely someone holds two pair or a set, as they would probably either check-raise or wait for the turn to reveal their strength.

As for calling or folding I prefer raising, at least on Party where I play most of the time.

By the way, this very thing hapened to me yesterday in a 15/30 Party game. I raised on the button with AK and both blinds called. The flop was similar to David's example and the SB bet and the BB raised. I re-raised and both players folded. I know that a positive result doesn't mean it was the right play. But I thought both players put me on overcards and made a move on me. I reraised, hoping to represent a real hand and to get a free river card if I missed the turn, and hoped at least one of them would fold.

[Broyle Dunson]

First of all I said "a few" not all of the hands,secondly,I did not say only the small blind would call with these hands.YOU Show me a Typical 30/60 player in the Big Blind that would make it 3 bets after the small blind Smooth calls with kj.I dont buy it.

[Broyle Dunson]

If you opt too continue.... truly feeling you,re getting the right price ,somehow knowing your overcards are good,wouldnt a call be the play since you have position,and are last to act ......and a raise on your part would open you up to a reraise /4 bet killing your price??????

[Boris]

Fold. getting 4.5:1 is not worth it. I know there are three backdoor draws but one of them you are likely to split the pot and drawing to an ace overcard really sucks as often you get trapped against Aces up when you make your hand. You also have to take into account that the sb blind might re-raise behind you and then you really are pot stuck. And just plain stuck in general.

[Ulysses]

.

[Vehn]

I really hope this is some sort of sycophant detector for advanced players because I can't imagine doing anything other than folding here in a 30/60 game.

[Ikke]

I'll say it's close between folding and 3-betting. IMO your main value of 3-betting comes from the likelyhood of taking a free card. Also see that SB is less likely to have A-(hit sidecard) so you are more likely to have 6 clean outs (with 3 nutflush-cards as well).

I wouldnt be surprised if Sklansky's final answer would depend on the J being a club.

Regards

[NMcNasty]

I would put the sb on KJ or QJ. AJ and pairs should have been 3 betted although its possible the SB has KK or AA. All other jacks should have been thrown away, and weak aces should have been 3 betted preflop or thrown away. So vs the small blind alone you only have about a 50% chance or less to have the correct odds to call.

The BB could have a set (people generally don't slowplay sets at 30/60), AJ, a straight draw, possibly a weaker jack, a low pair (from A5 or something) and maybe even a middle pocket pair.

In general if you call or 3 bet you are assumming that neither the BB nor the SB has an ace or a king which at this limit I find highly unlikely. Also, I don't think either blind is in any position to bluff, so (except for the straight draw) no matter what you are up against you are the underdog. You should fold here.

[BookOfIcculus]

I don't get you it. You either have to catch 2 cards comming or at best catch 1 card and avoid at least 6 redraws. I just can't see calling or raising to catch runner runner.

Since these are typical 30-60 players I don't think there is much of a chance at a free card on the turn. A good chance of a free card would certianly change this fold to a raise.