Hand review please

[cornell2005]

[ QUOTE ]
If I'm understanding you correctly...you were hoping to keep the pot relatively small on the flop in order to "pop" the turn and give your opponents even worse odds for chasing the flush to river? If you're playing with deep stacks and against tricky players, then so be it. But this is Party Poker!

Unfortunately, you were never in control during this hand. The maniac led out on each of the bets, and you only called. (Not to mention his $70 bet on the turn was directed at you.) Even heads-up against the maniac, I would have been willing to go all-in on the flop hoping to take the existing $50 pot down ($45 profit minus the rake). Maniacs are great to play with because they'll chase you down with anything...charge them (and anyone else who wants to come along for the ride) the MAX!

In this case, I think you were trying to play your bullets a little too cute and your strategy ended up biting you in the rear. Playing with considerably deeper stacks (i.e. 100-200xBB+) then I think it's okay to play this way during key moments. But with only a 50xBB buy-in, you need to: (1) raise more before the flop with high pocket pairs, & (2) protect your overpair when the board looks semi-coordinated. Don't give your opponents cheap odds to chase you down. Just play your ABC game until your stack builds up a bit...then throw in a few nasty curves to mix it up.

[/ QUOTE ]

no i was "trying" to get him to lead out again on the turn with his middle or top pair, pot committing him when i reraised him back.
i figured
1. he would definently lead out again on the turn if i just called here.
2. and if there was alot more money in the pot when he faced an all in decision he would call, regardless if he had a strong hand or not.
3. given he is such a poor player, i didnt think he would ever pot bet his flush draw, no matter how aggressive he was. (of course i didnt give enough credit to a potential flush draw behind me)

but yea, i positive this was the wrong way to go about it given the situation of this hand, but just wondering if this is ever a valid thought process

[george w of poker]

i think you are on the right track but the pot would have to be a lot smaller to just call. even then i like raising better. maniacs are used to being played back at and will call with sub par holdings, so i would probably still raise heads up in the same situation.

[cornell2005]

thx, see it now

[eggzz]

You said the SB was a poor player, but by my count he does have four times the original buy in, which can't make him all that bad. You have to at least respect the stack size.

I do like your smaller sized pre-flop raise because you were in such early position. I don't agree with the posters that said you should raise up higher, you don't want to see fold fold fold fold fold, after you raise it up early to $15, you have to generate some money into the pot. Now in later position, yes, pop it to $10-12.

With that being said, that is why it is so important to re-raise the maniac and isolate him heads up after the flop. Since you let people see the flop cheaply, now is the time to put your bullets on the table so to speak, but you already know that.

I really am interested in knowing what happened in the hand. Did he have the flush?

[Gomez22]

Do you always raise PF such a small amount PF compared to the blinds? I would think with a maniac in the game, you're going to be more in the area where you win a small pot with big PP's rather than big ones(at least in my opinion).

You admitted the small PF raise was weak, but why did you do it? I know from time to time, I tend to play a little "weaker" with a maniac at the table.... I try to be sneaky with more hands that can make monsters(suited connectors, maybe suited one-gappers, small to mid PPs, and sometimes even offsuit connectors from good position PF, ie: button, or maybe blinds). The one thing I don't do, however, is vary my PF raise amount any.

On the flop, with him potting it, I'm not going any further with this hand unless I'm pushing it all in right now.... no calling here, because you have to assume against this type of player, all of your chips are going into the pot by the river unless you fold the flop, so put the decision to THEM and make a play..... this is unquestionably fold or all-in turf for me. I think calling is the worst option available here. I've stated one reason already, the other is what happened here:

Although the turn wasn't the BEST card you could hope for, it gave you a 5-1 shot to hit the nuts on the river, and you're only getting 2.5-1 on THAT draw, assuming you have to hit it to win. That's why I push on the flop... all decisions are out of your hands from that point on, and it's all about who's got em when the river falls.

[Gomez22]

[ QUOTE ]
hoping the player behind me would fold, i called,

[/ QUOTE ]

The thing is, the player on the button is getting 3-1 just to call here, so any draw he has, he's calling at least to see the turn.... unless you raise the flop and make it theorhetically wrong for him to call in this situation. Why give him better odds when your major concern is SB?

If you push on the flop, although it's your whole stack, at least you face a better possibility of getting into a HU situation at worst. When you just call, what happens IF button raises here?

Don't leave a door open for a guy if you can slam it in his face.

And remember... it's always better to win a small pot than lose a big one.

[cornell2005]

[ QUOTE ]

I really am interested in knowing what happened in the hand. Did he have the flush?

[/ QUOTE ]

yea he had k2s for the flush

[eggzz]

Ugh. Sorry to hear.

Now that you are reflecting on your hand, lets try it again.

He bets the pot on the flop $25. I forget how much you had to begin with, I think you had $100.

Do you think he would have folded his draw to a $70 re-raise after committing $30 to the hand already? I don't think he would have. So in hindsight, you probably would have ended up with the same result, a tough beat.

Hope AA finds you in a better spot next time.

[The Ram]

Here is the most concrete answer for the flop raise. If you just call, you price in the player behind you for almost any draw other than a single pair. If the SB is betting a draw, you're letting him take his draw on his own terms, and a lot of cards he could need here are not obvious. 56s is not an unreasonable hand, and are you really going to figure that an offsuit 7 helped him?
Plus, if he is a maniac and will call for more than he should with a lone pair or a draw, so be it. You're EV is positive, his isn't.
If he folds, take the $50 or so in the pot and be happy about it.

All in on the flop is the obvious play here.

[Little Fishy]

You already know it might have been smart to raise more preflop. On the flop why did you only call, did you really fear trip 10's from a maniac? why not reraise him big, take button off of his possible draw and isolate SB, there's already a good amount of cash in the pot, even if they fold it won't be the worst thing ever, and if they call and are on a draw, make it a big mistake given the size of the bet you put in.