KK with two callers...where did I go wrong?

AtlBrvs4Life · #1 05-10-2004, 02:00 AM

This just happened. One of the weirdest hands I've ever been involved in. Keep in mind this was a party $10+$1 and these guys didn't seem very smart from watching their previous hands. I ended up winning the game anyways. Ironically, the hand I won with was also KK.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed)

BB (t920)
UTG (t755)
AtlBrvs4Life (t2240)
MP1 (t260)
MP2 (t1075)
CO (t725)
Button (t1065)
SB (t960)

Preflop: AtlBrvs4Life is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG folds, AtlBrvs4Life raises to t90, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB calls t75, BB calls t60.

Flop: (t270) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players) 
SB checks, BB bets t30, AtlBrvs4Life raises to t270, SB raises to t870 (All-In), BB calls t800 (All-In), AtlBrvs4Life calls t600.

Turn: (t2840) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players, 2 all-in) 

River: (t2840) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players, 2 all-in) 

Final Pot: t2840
Main Pot: t2760 (t2760), between BB, AtlBrvs4Life and SB. > Pot won by SB (t2760).
Pot 2: t80 (t80), between AtlBrvs4Life and SB. > Pot won by AtlBrvs4Life (t80).

Results in white below: 
BB shows 7s 9s (straight, nine high).
AtlBrvs4Life shows Kc Kh (two pair, kings and fives).
SB shows 6c, 6s (a full house, Sixes full of fives).
Outcome: SB wins t2760. AtlBrvs4Life wins t80.

CMangano · #2 05-10-2004, 02:48 AM

I think you went wrong by running into the flopped nuts and a flopped set. Not much you can do here. This is a tough laydown for just 600 chips, especially when you have that many chips and the pot is now a million chips, plus you get to see the showdown.

Prickly Pete · #3 05-10-2004, 11:24 AM

Actually I'd fold to the allin raise and call. It's most likely that your overpair is no longer good.

thomastem · #4 05-10-2004, 11:34 AM

Fold the all-in call.

If blinds are calling your 3x bets pre-flop ramp them up to 4x on your premiums. It wouldn't have helped you on this hand but is more profit in the long run.

NotMitch · #5 05-10-2004, 11:40 AM

At the $10+1 level at Party folding here is a huge mistake. You are ahead here more often than you are behind. You are getting a great price to call both all ins and you still have a solid stack to play with if you lose.

Profit · #6 05-10-2004, 11:43 AM

not really specific to this hand, but early in a tournament i really don't follow the raise 3x bb with high pockets like most suggest. I'm usually raising 5x bb (in first two stages of tourney) It just seems to me that a raise to 90 receives very little respect in the 10+1's. Had the blinds been 10-15, there is no way i'm only raising KK to 45, id probably get 8 callers (the 9th woulda accidentally hit fold [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]) Although this wouldnt have helped you in this hand most likely.

IMO, this is a pretty scary flop when going up against the blinds. I like your initial raise of 270, if you get any callers or reraises i would watch out. With callers alone i would suspect a flush draw, with the reraise i'm assuming this person now realizes he has action and doesn't want anyone catching a diamond. With 2 people all in ahead of me, i have to believe that i am now behind by atleast one of these guys. Could they both really be on flush draws and or 1 pair? I doubt it, but it is possible and really the only thing you are hoping for if you call. I would have guessed flush draw and 2 pair. Even though it was only another 5-600 for you and if you call you are still in good shape with 1200 chips, i think i let this one go, still have 1800 chips and am in great shape.

Mackas · #7 05-10-2004, 11:55 AM

I agree, I'd fold to the all in and call, the combination of both, in particular the call, being extremely indicative that you're beat.

The only thing I do sympathise with is that its a party $10 sng and there is a chance you might end up looking at A7 (up and donw str8) and K8 (Top pair) or some such nonsense. Even taking that possibility into account a call would still be wrong but knowing its wrong (which I suspect you knew even at the time) and actually folding are two different things. Given all the chips you already had I can see where it was tempting and still would be prone to this sort of frustrated call myself unfortunately.

thomastem · #8 05-10-2004, 12:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
At the $10+1 level at Party folding here is a huge mistake. You are ahead here more often than you are behind. You are getting a great price to call both all ins and you still have a solid stack to play with if you lose.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are two opponents, 1 has re-raised your strong raise and the other has called almost cold. Calling this is throwing chips away.

Save your stack for better situations and remember the idea is to survive to the money.

I do like the 5X pre-flop bet early.

NotMitch · #9 05-10-2004, 01:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At the $10+1 level at Party folding here is a huge mistake. You are ahead here more often than you are behind. You are getting a great price to call both all ins and you still have a solid stack to play with if you lose.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are two opponents, 1 has re-raised your strong raise and the other has called almost cold. Calling this is throwing chips away.

Save your stack for better situations and remember the idea is to survive to the money.

I do like the 5X pre-flop bet early.

[/ QUOTE ]

No way I fold this. In these games people treat TPTK like it is the nuts, and will push it on a draw. He is getting like 5-1 on his call for the last 600 and I think he is good here half the time. Plus even if he loses he still has a very playable stack. And if he wins he is in command of this SnG.

Prickly Pete · #10 05-10-2004, 01:52 PM

By my calculation, he's only getting a little under 4 to 1 on the call. 2240 : 600. At any rate, that does make it tempting, because I agree you'll see some making this play with 87 here. So maybe you're close to getting the odds necessary to make the call. But in no way do I agree that he is good half the time here.