Poorly played two pair

[Nukid]

Very loose, fairly aggressive, 1-1-2 blinds, 4 to go NL game. Most stacks are in the 150-300 range, with two people being at 100. I have 223, and the two relevant players in the hand have me covered.

In mid position, three limp to me, I have A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] I limp in as do the cutoff button and small blind, big blind folds, 7 to see the flop.

Flop comes A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Small blind checks, first bettor bets out 20 (he is very aggressive, but won't call many raises without the goods, on the flip side, he'll bluff right through the river). Next too guys fold, I smooth call, cut off and button fold, small blind calls.

Turn is the K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], a semi-scary card as a bigger two pair may be made now. Small blind checks aggro player bets out 40, I consider pushing back, but I wimp out and just call, as does small blind. River comes 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Small blind checks aggro better fires out another 40, I call, small blind comes over the top all in, and both aggro-man and myself muck. I'm pretty sure it was a good muck on the river, but I think I played it terriby until then. How would other people have played it? Raise on the flop, or on the turn? Or muck on one of them?

[Richie Rich]

According to my calculations, there was over $200 in the pot after your opponent's $40 river bet...and you folded two pair (Aces Up)!?!

I doubt you put him on a set. Do you think he caught runner-runner for the flush? What hand do you think he was holding? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[MS Sunshine]

I don't fear the K on the turn for a bigger two pair, since most AK would have made noise preflop, but a QJ would be a double-belly buster on the flop with a str8 on the turn. Even with that in mind there are too many draws out there on the turn and I would have given them bad odds on a turn call here. Either make it $120(leaving you about $80 with the pot $320+ on the river betting round [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] ) or all-in.

MS Sunshine

[fnord_too]

I would have raised on the flop probably. Top and bottom is pretty vulnerable especially with straight and flush draws. There are just too many cards you hate to see on the turn. IMO you must make it a mistake for anyone to draw to the straight or flush here. If you are up against a hand that is beating you or a favorite (there are some draws that would be slight favorites over you, like J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], but thats like 50.4 to 49.6) then so be it, but you must make people with hands like AK, AQ, 9J, etc pay to draw on you. Just calling here is a big mistake in my book, you are gambling a blank will hit and the agro will bluff off some money, which has a lot of merit if the hand was heads up, but with two opponents in the pot, take it down here or force them into a mistake to play. BTW, that is the second scariest turn card I can think of, only worse one is K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. The number of likely hands that are beating you just skyrocketed, and laying down on the turn may not be a bad idea unless you have very good reads on your opponents.

Eric