Laying the overpair down on the river (PP 6 Max)

[gojacketz]

This one has been bugging me for a while. 6 handed max $1/$2 on Party Poker. I am dealt KK in the BB. Haven't been at the table a long time

SB: Seemed to be a pretty good player, not very aggressive preflop, but aggressive on turn and river. A very frequent check raiser, and has shown good hands when he did check raise.
UTG: absolutely horrendous player, saw every flop no matter the cost and with anything. Your basic calling station.
Button: Also a really bad player who never raised preflop, total calling station til the river when he would throw in an occasional bet. Been getting killed since I got there.


Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $1.
UTG checks, MP folds, CO folds, Button calls, SB completes, Hero raises, UTG calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 players) </font>
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (6 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 players) </font>
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, Button calls, SB calls.

River: (10 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 players) </font>
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, Button calls, SB raises, Hero folds, UTG folds, Button folds.

Final Pot: 15 BB
<font color="#990066">Main Pot: 14 BB, won by SB.</font>
<font color="#990066">Pot 2: 1 BB, overbet by SB.</font>

SB doesn't show.
Outcome: SB wins 15 BB.

Anybody call the river checkraise? I can't see any possible way I am ahead with two callers and a raise behind me. I figured at least one of the callers had the six for the middle buster til they folded to the checkraise. I think either BB (the river checkraiser had a six or rivered a set of 7s (which is doubtful he would have checkraised the river with the 7s).

Anyone see a way I am not behind in this hand at the end? Big pot, I mulled the call over for a while, but just could not justify it. What do you think BB had (I don't have the answer to this unfortunately, can't believe the earlier callers folded).

Thanks,

Gojacketz

ps Bison, the hand converter is absolutely outstanding.

[naphand]

Most of the time I think I call here. 15BB in the pot, so you only have to see AQo rarely to make this call justifiable. What happens the next time a 4-straight appears on the board and you are CR? your opponents have seen you fold to this already, and if there is one thing they like on Party it's a bluff raise on the River.

I was not playing this hand, and you have a strong read on this player. Admittedly, Party $1/$2 does not have many players smart enough to notice your fold. That said, if it is still bugging you now, then call it, just for the sake of peace of mind. You know the rest had garbage. And if you don't want to be CR by this player, check behind him a little more if you think he is setting you up (you say he CR a lot). If he misses a CR once, he could lose 4-5 BB in a case like this by getting checked thro. I know we talk a lot about "value betting" weak/passive players to death on the Forum, but against a regular CR'er, it's no crime to check behind a few times in tricky spots like this.

[gojacketz]

Would you call it after two players called your bet and then you got check-raised? I just cannot think of a scenario where I am ahead in this hand at that point in the hand. After the other two folded, I think there was a possibility that the SB had AQ and was hoping to squeeze my overpair out by representing the straight, but no way am I to know that with the other two callers still live in this hand.

Gojacketz

[naphand]

One good reason is

[ QUOTE ]
UTG: absolutely horrendous player...Your basic calling station.

[/ QUOTE ]

and another good reason,

[ QUOTE ]
Button: Also a really bad player...total calling station

[/ QUOTE ]

With these guys adding so much extra equity in the pot, and the fact that they just called your bet, makes me want to call the CR even more.

I've been in a few situations like the one you describe and there's no denying that it is a tough spot. I posted a couple of examples here (pocket KK against very aggressive QQ and a 2nd pair who bet out on the River) where I folded the winner. You don't know you had the winner, of course, but 2 more recent hands come to mind where I was facing multiple opponents and a tough board, with a player suddenly betting/raising the River. I called both, split one pot and won the other outright. In both cases I figured I surely had to be beat, but no, someone was trying it on with a scary board with 2nd pair, and another player raises my Turn bet as he had the same hand as me and was slow-playing it.

When the pot is big, and you have bad players calling these bets, I am more inclined to call here. You lose 1 more bet (and save yourself getting bluffed into on other similar boards) or win a large pot. Both options are better than seeing your winning hand in the muck.... [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]