Playing ATs, nut flush draw from the button

dana33 · #1 05-02-2004, 07:47 PM

Did I maximize my profit on the following hand? In particular:

Is ATs strong enough to raise from the button preflop here?

On the flop and turn, my intent was to keep the players behind me in and adding to the pot, which is why I didn't raise till the river. (If there had been callers between me and the bettor, I would have raised the flop.) Good plan or bad plan?

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players) 
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP3 bets, CO folds, Hero calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players) 
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

River: (10.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players) 
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP3 bets, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 folds, MP3 calls.

Final Pot: 18.50 BB

Results in white below: 
BB shows 9h Kh (three of a kind, nines).
MP3 shows 4d Qc (two pair, queens and nines).
Hero shows Td Ad (flush, ace high).
SB shows Qs Kc (two pair, queens and nines).
Outcome: Hero wins 18.50 BB.

bakku · #2 05-02-2004, 07:50 PM

Yes, I would raise this hand preflop on the button. Since MP3 is betting into you on the flop, just calling is fine. I think I'd probably just raise the turn and bet the river, though.

sublime · #3 05-02-2004, 08:04 PM

Raise pre flop

sublime · #4 05-02-2004, 08:23 PM

I wouldn't slow play a non-made hand. I am interested in otehrs comments, but I would feel sick if I spiked a A on the river and somebody made bottom 2 pair on the turn or something.

bakku · #5 05-02-2004, 08:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't slow play a non-made hand. I am interested in otehrs comments, but I would feel sick if I spiked a A on the river and somebody made bottom 2 pair on the turn or something.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't quite understand what you're saying here..Hero has a flush on the turn

sfer · #6 05-02-2004, 08:36 PM

Hey Dana. How loose is your table? Who folds a semi-strong hand to turn raise? Who sticks around regardless of how hopeless the board is with TP under heavy action? You have to be able to identify attributes like these in your opponents. From reading the hands that called your blatantly obvious turned-flush-river-raise, I'm inclined to think you missed bets. You got called by trips, TP no kicker, and TP good kicker. They were all going to pay another bet on the turn, and a final one on the river. In a lot of ways, this a totally unfair statement by me because I saw what they had and it's all ex post, but I firmly believe these tendencies were knowable before the hand. You should strive to know.

EDIT: Also, raise preflop. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

sublime · #7 05-02-2004, 08:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't quite understand what you're saying here..Hero has a flush on the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling the flop. Hero has a chance of winning this pot even if he doesnt make his flush (ace). By not raising the flop bet he is alllowing weak hands that may have hit bottom pair to see more cards.

Lets forget that he made the flush, and say he didnt but spiked an ace on the river. Would kinda suck to lose out to some [censored] hand that probably would have folded to a flop raise.

bakku · #8 05-02-2004, 09:46 PM

Thanks for explaining what you meant, makes sense now. Oh, and I agree [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

sublime · #9 05-02-2004, 10:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Lets forget that he made the flush, and say he didnt but spiked an ace on the river. Would kinda suck to lose out to some [censored] hand that probably would have folded to a flop raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Censored? What did the FCC get a hold of 2+2?

can I say poopey instead?