15/30 completing the small blind

[Ulysses]

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The call is +EV for the games represented in the pokerroom stats .

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Yes. And for this specific scenario, those stats probably only have marginal significance, but at least it's something.

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Lets just say the average hand has 3.5 opponents when you complete the SB, then completing with 2 opponents must be -EV.
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Do you agree?


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Yeah, I probably agree. In general, I fold more of this stuff in the SB than most, since I learned a lot of stuff from watching Tommy.

[Ulysses]

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now my question shifts to the blind structure used to compute these #'s. if the blind goes in and is counted, it creates biases if the blinds are all different sizes and structures.

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What you said wrt both the biases due to the different blind sizes/structures and reasons why you would call in a multi-way 15/30 pot are all reasonable and likely correct.

I had two quibbles wrt your post.

One was semantic in nature - EV of the "decision" vs EV of the "hand"

The other was an important distinction - understanding that the PokerRoom stats reflect EV from prior to putting in the blinds.

I think we are all talking from the same frame of reference now, regardless of what the "correct" or "standard" definitions are.

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in any case, it is clear, then, from what you say that you must call here in a 15/30 game.

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Well, not necessarily. Just clear if we believe those numbers are the right numbers for a 15/30 game, which they aren't. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I think your comments wrt when to complete v. not in your initial post were the right way to look at this.

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but was that the intended purpose of the chart? how does it account for the different frequencies each blind is encountered? or is it done at one limit? just curious.

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Really the chart is not terribly useful for specific situations like this. You can slice it by position, limit, etc. but I think the more granular/precise you get, the less accurate your conclusions are likely to be. I think the main benefit of the pokerroom stats are to get a general idea of the relative strength of different hands in different positions and v. different numbers of players.

[DiamondDave]

You could fold 82s for one chip in the SB and save your energy for making decisions in more favorable spots.

Or you could look at the two limpers and the big blind and ask yourself if you want to play your hand against those particular opponents at that point in time.

It probably isn't worth it, even if those three players are really passive but will pay you off. Maybe if they don't know that a flush beats a straight...

[Pipedream]

All this talk about the simplicity of your question and look at the debates it's caused. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Yes complete in the SB in that structured game with any two suited.

Pipedream

[George Rice]

You need about 15:1 implied odds to call in this spot. You're getting 11:1 pot odds, so there's no doubt that you'll get there if the BB doesn't raise. If the BB raises, then you'll be getting 7:1 on calling the raise, not too good, a borderline situation. Combining the two possiblities clearly indicates a call for 1/3 small bet.