Omaha 8, how'd I play it?

[Nukid]

First time playing Omaha 8 in a casino (4-8 game) In mid position, I follow three limpers with A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I just limp in, both the cut off button and small blind call, the big blind checks.

First question, should I have raised, or would this just fold marginal draws that pay me off when I hit?

So the flop comes the dreamy flavor of 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Giving me the nut low, protection, a straight draw, and a really crappy flush draw. Checked to me, I bet, four people call.

Turn is what looks like a blank to me, Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Check to me, I bet 1 caller, big blind check raises, two fold,it's back to me and I reraise, both call.

Was my re-raise here good, I realize that if the hand were to end here I might be getting quartered, but I figure I have a few outs, and if I could force the third guy out, my flush draw might be good.

river comes the 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], making the flush and the boat both possible. First guy checks, I check, third guy bets, first guy check raises, I call, and the other guy calls.

So, the flop and river seem pretty straight forward to me, but I was wondering if more advanced O8 players would have raised pre-flop, or three bet it on the turn?

[Buzz]

Nukid - I think you played fine.

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First time playing Omaha 8 in a casino (4-8 game) In mid position, I follow three limpers with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I just limp in, both the cut off button and small blind call, the big blind checks.

First question, should I have raised, or would this just fold marginal draws that pay me off when I hit?

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Either way. There's not much doubt that you probably have the best starting hand at the table on this particular deal. Accordingly, you want more money in the pot here. However, there's a trade off between getting more money in the pot here and waiting. You tend to get less on later rounds from wary opponents who are putting you on cards.

If you are short-stacked such that you will probably be all-in at some point in the betting, you get more leverage (better odds) by getting as much of your opponent's money in the pot as possible before the flop. If so, go ahead and jamb before the flop.

If your opponents play as though they are oblivious to whatever you do, in other words, if they cannot tell when you have a good hand and when you are gambling, go ahead and jamb.

If your opponents are very loose before the flop but very tight after the flop, go ahead and jamb. (They're not going to play after a flop that is favorable to you anyhow - but they'll tend to call your pre-flop raises).

However, if your opponents might tend to chase with 2nd, 3rd, and 4th best hands after the flop - and especially if they also are wary and alert for better hands, then you'll lose them after a flop which is favorable to you. Thus you won't make as much money by raising pre-flop. (And of course you'll save money when you miss the flop - but this is not the major considertion. You can't play scared!)

Of course, your opponents are not all the same. Some of them play better than others. Thus it's simply difficult to determine without knowing them, (and maybe even if you do know them), what is best.

Maybe raising with the hand some of the time and not raising with it the rest of the time is best. I don't know - that's how I'd play it.

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So the flop comes the dreamy flavor of 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Giving me the nut low, protection, a straight draw, and a really crappy flush draw. Checked to me, I bet, four people call.

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Looks good.

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Turn is what looks like a blank to me, Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Check to me, I bet 1 caller, big blind check raises, two fold,it's back to me and I reraise, both call.

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Lordy! I wonder what BB holds? Could it be a pair of queens? Or is it a delayed action from a nut low? Or is BB trying to be cute (fancy play syndrome)? My best guess is a pair of queens.

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Was my re-raise here good, I realize that if the hand were to end here I might be getting quartered, but I figure I have a few outs, and if I could force the third guy out, my flush draw might be good.

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Exactly. Your re-raise is fine, IMHO. You're probably quartered for low by the player behind you - but there is a chance you'll end up with a winning spade flush.

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river comes the 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], making the flush and the boat both possible. First guy checks, I check, third guy bets, first guy check raises, I call, and the other guy calls.

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Fine. When BB didn't bet here, I'd wonder what BB was trying to pull. (Does he have the pair of queens or not??). I would not generally expect an opponent to go for two check raises in the same hand, and thus I would probably bet here, but fine. Perhaps wary of BB, you check and then call the double bet. Fine. Looks like you're probably getting quartered for low and BB has queens full. Oh well. Costs you $16 to call the double bet, but assuming you will be quartered, your share of the pot will be about $42. Fine.

So BB got in two check raises? Seems like crappy play by BB to me. Whatever. Some individuals seem to live for check raises.

At any rate, now there's a flush on the board but a full house is also possible. Looks like BB has the pair of queens, realizes he has a very strong hand, and figures that a very strong hand is worth a try at a check-raise.

If so, BB evidently expected you or 3rd position player to bet. Hard to say for sure. Sometimes the play in these games is excellent - and other times the play is so bizarre that it throws you off.

I think you played fine.

Just my opinion.

Buzz

[BSCwik]

The first thing you need to consider is that you have a drawing hand yourself. Lows, straights, and flushes are all draws. I'll usually raise from late position with many callers only if one of two things occurs: I have a great starting hand with a high pair and a low draw (AA2x, AA34, AA3x is questionable, if you have suits even better). Or, if I'm on the button or in the blinds and I have one of those great hands or 3 to a low, usually A23x and rarely A24x (never A34x). With a drawing hand, you want more people in the pot, giving you greater odds later on. Especially with the first group (with a high pair), you can lay a good starting claim to both halves of the potential pot. With your hand, especially one off the button, you might scare off the button and the blinds (unless the blinds call everything), so I would just call here, as you're pretty much only drawing to a low and a straight. Even if you had A23x I would just call here. You want people in the pot. An additional reason for just calling is that you semi-disguise your hand; the first thing people think when you raise in Omaha, regardles of where or when, is "A2", especially if you raise with many players in the pot already.

From what I'm reading, on the turn when the raise gets back to you it seems there are only three in the pot. Normally, the rule is you don't raise if you think you're getting quartered unless there are 4 in the pot. Here, there are 3, but there's the exception that the button only called one bet before the check raise, and then two after. You have to analyze his play, and if he'll chase a lot or call with 2nd-low. His second cold-call of two bets scares me a bit (in regards to the quarter), but if he's a guy who will call all the way down for a flush or will call all the way down with 2nd low then I might reraise on the turn anyhow, especially with redraws (note: after he cold calls the two extra bets on the turn, I might just play it safe on the river if none of my high draws hit).

When the third guy bets on the river, I think you're gold. It implies that even though you've been representing A2 all along, he either stupidly is betting his flush with a pair on board, or has hit a boat 5s full (and was calling down with 2 pr all along). Unless he's totally oblivious to your A2. In this case, if you think he'll fold with a reraise, I might just call the BB, but if you think he'll call a reraise, I might just do it.

BTW, what did they all have? QQ for BB? 5s full or flush for button? Did you get quartered?

[BSCwik]

An amendment to my previous post, if you think the BB is the kind of person who will stupidly check-raise with just a nut low with only two others in for one bet plus two others after him, then you might not want to keep raising. You have to trust your feel for the table on that one.