4-flush trouble

Ben · #1 04-15-2004, 01:35 AM

I'm having trouble playing 4-flushes. Example hands:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (7 handed)

Hero ($30.80)
MP1 ($61.90)
MP2 ($29.65)
CO ($13)
Button ($19.50)
SB ($20.21)
BB ($35.15)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero calls $0.50, MP1 calls $0.50, MP2 calls $0.50, CO calls $0.50, Button folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($3) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players) 
SB checks, BB bets $3, Hero calls $3, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO folds, SB folds.

Turn: ($9) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players) 
BB bets $3, Hero calls $3.

River: ($15) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players) 
BB bets $3, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $18
Main Pot: $15, won by BB.
Pot 2: $3, overbet by BB.

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Another:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed)

SB ($15)
Hero ($27)
UTG ($32.65)
UTG+1 ($3)
MP1 ($68.25)
MP2 ($30.40)
MP3 ($56)
CO ($51.45)
Button ($19.25)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls $0.50, CO calls $0.50, Button folds, SB folds, Hero checks.

Flop: ($1.75) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players) 
Hero checks, MP3 checks, CO bets $5, Hero calls $5, MP3 calls $5.

Turn: ($16.75) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players) 
Hero checks, MP3 checks, CO bets $8, Hero folds, MP3 raises to $16, CO calls $8.

River: ($48.75) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players) 
MP3 bets $10, CO folds.

Final Pot: $58.75
Main Pot: $48.75, won by MP3.
Pot 2: $10, overbet by MP3.

I never know if I should be calling these bets on the flop.
What about the turn?

When is the bet too much? When the third flush card falls it makes it much likely that I'm getting my opponent's stack, so can I only draw to the turn based on pot-odds?

I think I need a basic lesson in playing flush draws in NL...anyone want to help?

-Ben

The Ram · #2 04-15-2004, 01:56 AM

Hand one--I'd raise the flop. You have overcards and the nut flush draw, and a lot of people behind you who might call behind you on the flop but probably won't call your raise, and if you get heads up you're likely to be a decent favorite against the BB. Then, you can make your decision on the turn based on what comes.

Hand two--this is close. If you are POSITIVE you're getting paid off if a diamond falls, call. But you better be positive. If you're wrong, you're getting WAY less than your necessary odds on the flop. It's like 1.5-1 or less. That's pretty bad.

scrub · #3 04-15-2004, 03:03 AM

Hand 1: Raising is a viable option on the flop, although I think it's a play best made from later position. Also, at a smaller table you probably stand to make too much when you hit and stand too small of a chance of winning the pot or even a free card with your semibluff. I think this hand is fine. When you choose to limp with this hand UTG, make sure that you're paying attention to the character of the table. It can be a tough hand to play on a lot of flops when there is a raise behind you. Just make sure that you're ready to procede with caution when you flop a pair instead of diamonds.

Hand 2: CO has just made a really strange bet. This is one of those times where a read would be pretty helpful. Usually a drastic pot overbet like that contains a lot of information. If it means "I have a weak hand that I'm willing to fold but I have position and feel uncomfortable abot the size of my genitalia and/or watch a lot of WPT", I'd consider semibluff pushing (although that would have burned you here...). If it means "I have a hand with which I will call", I'd fold. There's nothing in the pot and not much in your stack. In a situation where it's marginally +EV to call with your draw assuming you almost always double through when you hit, it's usually better to fold.

scrub