75-150 hand

[Clarkmeister]

With the Bellagio out of service, the Mirage has had several 75-150 (blinds 75 and 50) games going. Here is a hand I'd like some feedback on.

Unknown player open raises UTG+1. I'm turning into Mason because I now assume all unknown players in this game are a "little too loose and a little too aggressive" but can play well postflop. I 3-bet in MP with ThTd. Definitely overaggressive player 4-bets from the CO. Blinds fold, UTG+1 and I both call.

Flop: Qh 9s 5c. Checked to CO who bets, UTG+1 and I both call.

Turn: 6h. Checked to me, I check.

Thoughts?

[Buckshot]

I think I would either bet the flop or check raise the flop. If neither of those options were appealing to me at the time then I think I would check and fold.

~stephen

[Jamie Collins]

Hello Clarkmeister,
I think it's the old 'depends' argument.

Depends on how overaggressive he is.
i.e does his 4-bet range of hands include AJ, 44 type hands. If so I think the best way to play it is lead bet the turn and fold to a raise (assuming he won't raise with AK, 88).

If you don't have a good enough line on his play I say check-fold the flop. A flop c-r won't eliminate JJ or AK.

Regards,
Jamie

[karlson]

Looks a lot like Mason's JJ hand. I think it's fine so far, I would plan on folding on the turn to a bet and a call, but if the CO is really overaggressive, I think you have to call the turn and river if UTG+1 folds.

[Clarkmeister]

"Depends on how overaggressive he is."

I have seen him 3-bet a reasonable UTG raiser twice from UTG+1. Once with Ac5c, once with AsQs. Haven't seen him 4-bet yet.

[Roy Hobbs]

I like betting the flop here, hoping that you will get it heads up with the overaggressive player on the turn. The only problem with this line is that you are probably committed to the river once it gets heads up, but if your read on this player is accurate, you should want this.

Once you check, you can't really think about folding, as another poster suggested, because the pot is now laying you 15 to 1. But I don't like the checkraise either when you are in between the other two players.

On the turn, I think you need to bet or check with the intention of folding if the UTG+1 player calls.

Did you check/call the flop to see if you would pick up a backdoor draw on the turn?

RH

[SGS]

I would have probably bet out or check-raised this hand on the flop. This allows me to take the aggressive stance and helps me figure out better where I am at, plus the overly aggressive player may raise w/ a worse hand to knock out UTG+1 making your situation easier. If I am just called I would then bet out on the turn and pending the river card I may bet again. The way you played it just seems too hard to figure out exactly where you are at.

I am curious if you were planning on check-raising, check-calling, or check-folding the turn? I am guessing that this would partially depend on what UTG+1 did if there was a bet from the button. I am guessing you check-raise if button bets and UTG+1 folds, check-call otherwise???? Is this reasonable?

SGS

[Pipedream]

If you plan on seeing a showdown with unimproved Tens, it would be in your best interest to try and get the initial raiser out of the equation. I would give consideration to leading out on the flop. If 4-bettor raises it is possible first player will muck a hand you want him to, like AK or AJ and put you in a headsup situation.

Pipedream

[Ezcheeze]

Check folding the flop is out of the question as he is getting 15.5 to 1 on his call. If we combine the chance of him being ahead with the chance of him hitting a set on the turn folding is clearly wrong.

The UTG player could hold something like AK, JJ, or a monster like QQ or 99. He could also hold AJ or AT and be calling for an A in this large pot and becuase he doesn't want to fold to one bet from an overly aggressive player. If he had AQ, KK or AA he most likely would have bet or check raised the flop. If he has AK or JJ you definitetly want him to fold the turn. A check from you and bet from the overly aggressive player probably will not convince him to fold these hands. A bet from you alone might get him to fold them and a bet and raise from the overly aggressive player will very likely get him to fold them. If he does have a monster he will likely reraise the turn. Thus I would choose to bet the turn and fold to a raise from the UTG player. The problem is what to do if the overly aggressive player calls/raises. We need to know what he would call/raise with in this situation. If he has hearts or a straight draw he may raise the turn here and he may raise with a smaller pocket pair than TT that isn't a set smelling a draw from your bet, so I suggest calling a raise from him and check calling the river. If UTG calls a raise from the overly aggressive player either you are way behind or he has AK, AJ, or AT of hearts. Thus it is still possible that after a bet by you, a raise by the overly aggressive player, and a call from UTG you are ahead, however, I would still fold in this scenario since its so likely you are way behind or would lose on the river.

[J_V]

I think the reason everyone is a little too loose and overaggressive is because everyone else thinks everyone else is a little too loose and overagressive and then they start 3 betting hands tehy normally might fold (perhaps 10-10?)