I now realise I can not play Internet Poker

[gabyyyyy]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes you can. You can actually lose quite a bit more with AK, than if you were dealt garbage the whole hour


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are you an idiot???

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you??

I was not saying that AK is a poor hand. What I was saying was, that your statement "getting 6 AK'S an hour will make you a winner during THAT hour", is absurd.

If you are running bad, you are going to lose a hell of a lot more with AK then 72 off. Simply, because you would never play 7-2 off. Get it? or do I have to spell it out for you.

Someone help me out here.

[34TheTruth34]

[ QUOTE ]
What I was saying was, that your statement "getting 6 AK'S an hour will make you a winner during THAT hour", is absurd.


[/ QUOTE ]

First of all, the quote that you put in quotation marks is not even close to what I said. Since the point of using quotation marks is to show that you are stating something that somebody said word-for-word, why would you use them for that quote? I never said that or anything close to it.

What I actually said was "you can't lose when you get AK 6 times an hour". Believe it or not Gene, I was not talking about actually getting AK 6 times an hour. What I was talking about is just the pure efficiency of playing mulitple tables online. The edge you have on each hand is much smaller and you don't get to make good reads or laydowns, but you see so many more hands (I play as many as 425 an hour) that you will be a winner. Especially when you play good hands (like AK) and they play every hand. The "you can't lose" part is correct in the long run for winning players. And the long run is even shorter when players are getting to look at 14 times as many hands per hour as they would in a B&M casino.

Did you actually think that I meant that there is no way you could ever lose? That is absurd. Of course winning players have sessions, weeks, and sometimes even months that they lose. That is a normal part of the game. And of course you can lose when you have AK. It happens all the time. And of course you could have AK (or even AA) 6 times and still have a losing hour. In the long run, though, you can't. And that's what I was talking about.

What ever happened to never posting again???

[Bubmack]

[ QUOTE ]
Tells in my opinion have a value of approximately $2 per hour to a highly skilled $20-$40 hold'em player who is able to make slightly more than $40 per hour.

[/ QUOTE ]

So there it is..from the crazy Mathematition himself. Im sure its more the lower the stake (as a %)..but at higher limits..I dont think its enough to worry about and is easily overwhelmed by the fact you can play 10 times as many hands online given the same amount of time.

bubs

[BookOfIcculus]

I think tommy angelo said "There are 3 ways to have an edge at poker. 1. Playing better cards. 2. Having better position. and 3. Being better at everything else."

I agree with you that online and in B&M being good and 1 and 2 will win. But to say that a highly skilled 20-40 holdem player only has a value of 2$ per hour from tells. Is pigoen holing "Highly Skilled 20-40 holdem player". Would it be correct to say that a Highly skilled cop, lawyer, pshycologist, magicain, or I'll even throw in speed chess player can make up for his unskilled a$$ at the table to the tune of 2-3 BB an hour? Could it be the case that at limit poker there may be a max earn per hour? If you play perfect openers and perfect position like mason does, are you at or close to that max earn? Does adding tells only increase your per hour value a samll percentage of what it could for someone not playing perfect position and pefect openers? I'm not saying this is the case, just a thought. In a round about way I think I just agreed with mason when all I wanted to do was disagree. Ah well you win some lose some.

Best Regards,
book

[jmark]

[ QUOTE ]
PP, bought in for 50$, just played one NL 25$ game and other SnG tournaments

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never played on the cryptologic skins, but I can say that party poker and paradise poker both are very soft at the $.50/$1.00 limit where you should start. I would think that NL is a tough place to start playing, especially with only $50 total.


I would say take $200 and go to party poker. Better yet deposit $175 and buy Lee Jones' Winning low limit holdem for $25. If you read it carefully, DON'T TRY TO BLUFF ANYONE, and stick to playing $0.50/$1.00 full 10-handed limit games (1 table only), you should do about 50 million percent better.

Also download the poker tracker trial and import all your hands. It's very cool.

[Bubmack]

True...and he does go on to say that his estimate may be low and it could be as high as $5 [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] . So I thought I would just throw you a bone [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
I Intend no offense with post....But...

I hear this line of BS from very bad players all the time. They try to use the "I need to see the person and get a tell" line when they are getting pummeled from calling their A,5 UTG.

First of all, this is the most over perceived advantage of a professional poker player that there is. It was either Mike Caro or Mason that estimated that the ability to read tells equates to about 2 big bets a week for the average poker professional player. Thats nothing.

If I had to guess....You need to learn more about how to just play solid straightforward poker and stop worrying about all the other crap.

Bubs

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree....mostly
While almost all players overestimate their skill at reading other players, I do feel that prfiling of other players, more than tells, is the big difference I get from playing live. "Tells" per se, are somewhat overrated, unless you happen to find a reliable one you can use again and again vs the same player. But, let's say i see 2 10-20 tables;

Table 1 has 3 guys over 65, 2 drunk guys, 2 25-39 year old guys, and 2 off-duty dealers

Table 2 has 5 guys 25-39 wearing discmans and shuffling chips like magicians, an old guy with a stack of chips a mile high, and 3 guys who look like they haven't seen daylight in 15 years wearing sunglasses as they play, discussing backgammon.

Which table do YOU choose?

Now this can be similar to having notes on players and choosing tables accordingly, but seriously, alot of times you can tell what kind of player a person is within 10 seconds of seeing them. Not that this info is rock solid, but it's good for starters.

[Daliman]

Yeah, i think it was more like 2 big bets per session, maybe a little lower. I think this was in "inside the poker mind"

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What I was saying was, that your statement "getting 6 AK'S an hour will make you a winner during THAT hour", is absurd.


[/ QUOTE ]

First of all, the quote that you put in quotation marks is not even close to what I said. Since the point of using quotation marks is to show that you are stating something that somebody said word-for-word, why would you use them for that quote? I never said that or anything close to it.

What I actually said was "you can't lose when you get AK 6 times an hour". Believe it or not Gene, I was not talking about actually getting AK 6 times an hour. What I was talking about is just the pure efficiency of playing mulitple tables online. The edge you have on each hand is much smaller and you don't get to make good reads or laydowns, but you see so many more hands (I play as many as 425 an hour) that you will be a winner. Especially when you play good hands (like AK) and they play every hand. The "you can't lose" part is correct in the long run for winning players. And the long run is even shorter when players are getting to look at 14 times as many hands per hour as they would in a B&M casino.

Did you actually think that I meant that there is no way you could ever lose? That is absurd. Of course winning players have sessions, weeks, and sometimes even months that they lose. That is a normal part of the game. And of course you can lose when you have AK. It happens all the time. And of course you could have AK (or even AA) 6 times and still have a losing hour. In the long run, though, you can't. And that's what I was talking about.

What ever happened to never posting again???

[/ QUOTE ]


Uh yes, you can. I play alot, and I play well, but simply playing the best cards all the time will NOT always get you the $$$. If it were that simple, all you'd EVER have to do is play JUST premium hands. And if you play alot of shorthanded or heads up, you will get KILLED waiting for strong starting hands. Your statement, as pointed out by Gabbby, is patently wrong. What you said was just plain wrong. AK is AK whether you are on 1 table at a time, or 8. The edge is not smaller at all. Yes, if you are a good player, and play good starting hands in ring games, then your standard deviation WILL go down in a sense, but your win% and table efficiency will also go down. Also, remember that if you have a BR for 5-10, 4x tables brings you down closer to 2-4, which is a different game, which may or may not play into how you play. Your statement made it sound like, even though distribution is the same, it's impossible to lose getting AK an avg of 6x per hour over the long haul, which is not only wrong, it's stupid.

EVERYONE gets AK with the same frequency over time, let's say for kicks it's 1.5 times per table hour. If you play 4x tables, that means 6 per hour, right? Which you said is impossible to lose long haul. Why is there any difference? There's not, that's why. This is like saying the person who plays the lottery 4x a week has a 4x better chance of winning. Yes, sort of, but, more correctly, NO, NOT AT ALL!
Yes, is it possible to get your game down to what i call "nuts and bolts poker" in this sense, which i think is probably what you MEANT to say, but you not only did a poor job of doing so, you also defended it just as poorly.

Gabbbbby deserves an apology, which i doubt she'll get from you...

So i'll apolgize instead...Gabbbby, i'm sorry you have to suffer fools such as this.... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[ChristinaB]

[ QUOTE ]
EVERYONE gets AK with the same frequency over time, let's say for kicks it's 1.5 times per table hour. If you play 4x tables, that means 6 per hour, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why are you guessing here? You get AK (AKs + AKo combined) dealt 1.2% of the time. To get this 1.5 times per table hour, you would have to avarage 125 hands dealt per table hour. [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]