"Suck it." G.W.B to the American Public

[superleeds]

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Well YOU may not think the war on terrorism is a "war", but the terrorists don't share your view. They have indeed declared a "war" on the West and particularly on the USA.

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Just because the terrorists use hyperbole, doesn't make it so. Both sides like you think its war because it makes it easier for them to brainwash.

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Matter of fact this is World War IV: the war of totalitarian Islamists versus the rest of civilization.

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I never thought the next great war would be so one-sided

[*Ryan_21*]

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Instead, Bush and Ashcroft, politely asked the American public to bend over while they violently ass rape our civil rights.

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This is the most important sentence probably ever posted on 2+2. I suppose if Bush gets re-elected this year that it will probably be the last election our nation has for a long time. With another 4 years in office, Bush is such a tyrant and powerwarped that he will find a way to turn this country and his position into a dictatorship. I know this sounds crazy but it could happen, I mean hell, he already muscled his way into office in an election that he did not win. How the hell does that happen. His power, his ego, his tyranny know no bounds. He has basically trampled (or violently ass raped) all of our civil liberties. If he wins the next election we as a people will have no civil rights left. Not that we have very many right now anyway.

Ryan_21

[Oski]

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Instead, Bush and Ashcroft, politely asked the American public to bend over while they violently ass rape our civil rights.

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This is the most important sentence probably ever posted on 2+2.

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Unlikely.

Within my definition of rights is my right to feel safe in my everyday life. I can appreciate one's point of view that "civil rights" are absolute and should not be compromised. However, something known as the real world demands such compromise. Absolute rights are very simple to protect until you discover that at least one other person occupies the planet with you. From that point on, rights are constantly balanced with real-world conditions.

If my government is making an effort to protect me, I am willing to cooperate...even if my "civil rights" are diminished. As a matter of fact, my everyday life is so similar to that pre "Patriot Act" that I cannot tell the difference. Of course, I have experienced longer lines at the airport.

Of course, the real question is whether we are getting the proper return on giving up some of our "rights." I don't know, but I suppose there is always a better way to get the job done.

[hetron]

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Well YOU may not think the war on terrorism is a "war", but the terrorists don't share your view. They have indeed declared a "war" on the West and particularly on the USA.

Matter of fact this is World War IV: the war of totalitarian Islamists versus the rest of civilization.

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But it is not a war in a traditional sense. Who are your opponents? How do you define them?

[CCass]

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I mean hell, he already muscled his way into office in an election that he did not win. How the hell does that happen.

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I don't know why I try and educate those who refuse to accept facts/reality, but here goes.

Fact #1 - For 200 years, our country has used the Electoral College to determine the next President.

Fact #2 - GWB received the necessary number of electoral votes in 2000, and was legally (and properly) sworn in as President of the United States.

Fact #3 - In every re-count of the Florida votes performed by various newspapers, think tanks, government watch dog organizations, etc... GWB received more votes in Florida than did Al Gore.

The fact that Ryan and others refuse to recognize this doesn't change reality. GWB won the election fair and square.

[hetron]

You made a very important post. The bottom line is that the US needs to return to state where we make the government accountable for what is going on. The policy currently in place is way off and ill conceived. Many think the terrorists can be defeated with sheer military power. Many will be wrong.

[superleeds]

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Fact #3 - In every re-count of the Florida votes performed by various newspapers, think tanks, government watch dog organizations, etc... GWB received more votes in Florida than did Al Gore.

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I don't dispute this

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The fact that Ryan and others refuse to recognize this doesn't change reality

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As I say I recognize this.

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GWB won the election fair and square.

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What I have a problem with is the 1000's of people who were barred from voting in Florida under dubious circumstances. The vast majority of these would have voted Gore. Coincidence?

[Oski]

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What I have a problem with is the 1000's of people who were barred from voting in Florida under dubious circumstances. The vast majority of these would have voted Gore. Coincidence?

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Yeah, it was known weeks in advance the whole election would come down to Florida and that the vote would be so close that it would be necessary to bar pro-Gore voters from the polls.

[adios]

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After the first attack in 1993, Clinton, by taking no extreme actions and for the most part doing nothing, magically prevented another attack for 8 years.

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Just during the Clinton administration

January 23, 1993: Mir Aimal Kansi, a Pakistani, opens fire on CIA employees on the street outside the agency's headquarters in Virginia. Kansi allegedly is angry about the treatment of Muslims in Bosnia; in retaliation, he had planned to get even by shooting up the CIA, the White House, and the Israeli embassy.

February 26, 1993: Islamic terrorists truck-bomb the World Trade Center. The perpetrators had wanted to kill up to a quarter million people by toppling the twin towers like two dominos. Ramzi Yousef, the leader of the bombers, said they intended to inflict Hiroshima-level casualties as punishment for U.S. policies in the Middle East.

March 3, 1993: A bomb explodes in front of the U.S. embassy in Belgrade, most likely in response to U.S. policy toward Serbia and Bosnia.

April 15, 1993: Seventeen Iraqis are arrested in Kuwait smuggling in a large car bomb and weapons as part of an Iraqi plot to assassinate former president George Bush on his visit to Kuwait. President Clinton would later retaliate against Iraq for the plot with cruise missiles strikes against the headquarters of Iraqi intelligence, killing several Iraqi civilians.

June 1993: Sheik Omar Abdul Rahman and other Muslims conspire to attack several New York landmarks all on the same day to inflict maximum casualties. As a sequel to the bombing of the World Trade Center, the group planned to blow up, on July 4, the headquarters of the U.N., the Lincoln and Holland tunnels under the Hudson River, the George Washington Bridge, and the federal government's main office building in New York. The group also planned to assassinate Senator Alfonse D'Amato and others. At the time they were arrested, the conspirators were mixing fertilizer and diesel fuel to create a bomb like the one used on the World Trade Center. Rahman and nine others were convicted in a public trial October 1, 1995.

July 1, 1993: Terrorists fire two rockets at the U.S. Air Force base at Yokota, Japan. The incident happens a few days before President Clinton is due to visit the base. The attacks are most likely from opponents of the U.S. military occupation of Japan.

July 7, 1993: Just six days later, four rockets are fired at the headquarters of the U.S. Air Force in Japan at Camp Zama, Japan.

October 3, 1993: After U.S. armed forces kill thousands of Somalians--an attack about which the commander of the operation, Marine Lt. Gen. Anthony Zinni, told the press, "I'm not counting bodies . . . I'm not interested"--al-Qaeda-trained Somalian tribesmen conduct ambushes of U.S. "peacekeeping" forces in Somalia. The attacks down two helicopters and kill 18 American Army Rangers, resulting in the infamous dragging of dead American soldiers through the streets of Mogadishu. An indictment alleges that al-Qaeda believes the United States has plans to occupy Islamic countries, as demonstrated by its involvement in Somalia and Saudi Arabia and the Persian Gulf War. U.S. forces would be withdrawn from Somalia, and bin Laden would later call the Somalia operation his group's greatest victory.

October 21, 1994: Members of Abu Nidal's organization are convicted of plotting to kill Jews in the United States, to blow up the Israeli embassy in Washington, and to kill anyone who exposed their plans.

February 7, 1995: Ramzi Yousef, mastermind of the World Trade Center bombing, is finally arrested in Pakistan. The arrest foils a plan already set in motion to bomb 12 U.S. jumbo jets in flight over the Atlantic and kill 4,000 passengers.

March 20, 1995: The Japanese apocalyptic cult Aum Shinrikyo (Supreme Truth) releases sarin nerve gas in the Tokyo subway. According to the group's beliefs, the last years of the millennium would give rise to an Armageddon between Japan and the United States, and the cult believed that attacking the Tokyo subway would hasten this Armageddon. The group was hoping to kill tens of thousands of people.

April 1995: Members of the Aum Shinrikyo religious cult plan a nerve-gas attack on Disneyland in Anaheim, California. The group plans to attack during a fireworks celebration at which attendance at the park would reach maximum capacity. Tipped off by Japanese police, U.S. authorities apprehend members of the group at the Los Angeles airport before they can launch the attack. The plan also called for an attack on petrochemical facilities in Los Angeles.The Aum Shinrikyo cult has assets of at least $1.2 billion and the capability to produce sarin and VX gas--agents that cause anthrax and botulism--and radiological weapons. This cult is still active.

August 18, 1995: The Manuel Rodriguez Patriotic Front bombs an office building of the American company Fluor Daniel in Santiago, Chile, citing as its reason solidarity with Cuba and opposition to the U.S. economic blockade.
September 13, 1995: A rocket-propelled grenade is fired at the U.S. embassy in Russia. The attack is suspected to have been retaliation for U.S. involvement in the NATO air strikes on Bosnian Serb targets.

November 13, 1995: A military complex in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, housing U.S. troops is car-bombed, killing seven people, including five Americans, and wounding 42 others. Muslims seeking to overthrow the oppressive Saudi monarchy and expel the United States from Saudi Arabia carried out the bombings. Three groups, including the Islamic Movement for Change, claim responsibility, and U.S. officials suspect Osama bin Laden was involved.
November 15, 1995: An explosive device is discovered on a power line to a U.S. military complex in Sagmihara, Japan.

February 15, 1996: A rocket is fired at the U.S. embassy compound in Athens, Greece, causing minor damage to three diplomatic vehicles and surrounding buildings. The State Department says the circumstances of the attack suggest it was another attack by the group known as November 17.
June 25, 1996: A U.S. military apartment complex, Khobar Towers, near Dhahran, Saudi Arabia, is truck-bombed, killing 19 U.S. airmen and wounding 515 people, including 240 U.S. citizens. U.S. officials have linked Osama bin Laden to the bombing, and some analysts also suspect Iran of complicity.

February 23, 1997: A Palestinian, Ali Hassan Abu Kamal, opens fire on the observation deck of the Empire State Building, killing and wounding several tourists before committing suicide.
July 31, 1997: Police in Brooklyn arrest two Palestinian men who allegedly are planning suicide bombings of the subway and a commuter bus.

November 12, 1997: Four employees of Union Texas Petroleum are killed in an attack one mile from the U.S. consulate in Karachi, Pakistan. The Islamic Revolutionary Council and the Aimal Secret Committee claim the killings are revenge for the conviction of Mir Aimal Kansi, the Pakistani man who murdered CIA employees in their cars in January 1993.

December 23, 1997: The teachers' residential compound of the Karachi American School is fired upon. This attack is also probably in retaliation for the conviction of Mir Aimal Kansi.

April 3, 1998: November 17 claims responsibility for a rash of attacks against U.S. targets in Greece. Since 1975, its victims include a CIA station chief and three other Americans.

August 7, 1998: Simultaneous car-bombings of the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, both linked to Osama bin Laden, kill more than 200 Africans--mostly Muslims. Before the bombings, bin Laden issues a Fatwa that he will kill Americans and will not discriminate between military personnel and civilians. In retaliation, on August 20, 1998, the U.S. launches cruise missiles on bin Laden's al-Qaeda training camps in Afghanistan and a factory in Sudan. The Clinton administration claims the Sudanese factory produced chemical weapons and was linked to bin Laden. This is later proven to be a lie, but it would not stop Clinton from declaring his own, although fragmentary, "War on Terrorism" in the midst of impeachment.

August 25, 1998: A Planet Hollywood restaurant in South Africa is bombed. A local terrorist group called Muslims Against Global Oppression is said to be the likely culprit, seeking revenge on the United States for the cruise missile attacks on Afghanistan and Sudan.
August 26, 1998: A U.S. government information center in Pristina, Kosovo, is fire-bombed, most likely in opposition to U.S. and NATO policy on Kosovo.

Early September 1998: The Ugandan government and the FBI uncover a plot by Osama bin Laden to attempt to bomb the U.S. embassy in Kampala, Uganda, for a second time. Ugandan officials say that the cruise missile strike on Sudan in retaliation for the bombings in Kenya and Tanzania might have prompted bin Laden to try a second time to attack the embassy in Kampala. Several arrests are made in connection with the bombing.

October 2000: The USS Cole is dinghy-bombed while in port in Yemen. Al-Qaeda is widely suspected, in bin Laden's ongoing personal war against U.S. policies in the Middle East.

[MMMMMM]

So what if it isn't a war in the traditional sense: it's a new kind of war, then. The world changes. The opponents are those who seek to impose radical Islam by force and believe in violently attacking Western civilization and killing innocents in order to do so.