Hellmuth Book "Controversy"?

[SheridanCat]

Yes, I read the book. I'll have to take another look at it, as I almost instantly ignored the advice given in the limit holdem section.

Regards,

T

[JTrue]

That is the section this thread is about. THE misinformation in the LIMIT HOLDEM SECTION!!!

[el_grande]

I have the book on order because I actually like Phil Hellmuth (the dude cracks me up), but I'm going to be taking everything in it with skepticism.

After reading his "hand of the day" archives from http://www.philhellmuth.com/ I'm not sure the guy is always honest. I mean, 3 times he mentions that he made the wrong play because he forgot what his hole cards were. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[DrSavage]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm lost. Many posters have complained that Hellmuth's book is bad, yet the real issue, to me, is whether: a. Hellmuth is a bad poker player; or, b. Hellmuth is purposely giving out bad info in order to mislead the multitude. If his recommendations reflect the way he actually plays, then I don't accept the criticism of anyone who has not bested him at the tables. I mean, the proof is in the field of battle, not on paper. If, on the other hand, one thinks he's being disingenuous, that's a different story--one I would need some evidence for, of course, but it seems the only other authentic criticism one is in a position to make, as the other one amounts to: "Phil Hellmuth can't play poker." Arguing with his style of play without beating him with yours is silly to me.

[/ QUOTE ]
Style described in phil's book is not the one he plays himself.
He's a terrible writer.
Advice is too dumbed down and in few sections incorrect, making it unusable.
There is zero information in the book that's not found in earlier publications.

[LionelHutz]

[ QUOTE ]
I believe that Hellmuth cares too much about his integrity (and has too great an ego) to want to be associated with a book that is intentionally dishonest.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then please explain the controversy with that UB tournament that had no real prize pot?

[Easy E]

yet the real issue, to me, is whether: a. Hellmuth is a bad poker player; or, b. Hellmuth is purposely giving out bad info in order to mislead the multitude. If his recommendations reflect the way he actually plays, then I don't accept the criticism of anyone who has not bested him at the tables

What if he is "accidently" giving out bad info? As in, he doesn't know better?
And if people are busting him up at the low limit tables, does that mean they can criticize?

Just because he has done well at tournaments doesn't mean he is a good poker player or that his written advice should be followed.

[jdl22]

[ QUOTE ]
Just because he has done well at tournaments doesn't mean he is a good poker player or that his written advice should be followed.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would agree with this if he had just won one or even two tournaments. Sure any reasonable player can win the big one (see R. Varkonyi) but this man has 9 bracelets. I don't think that an average or even slightly above average player could win 9 bracelets. He's is better than good. His poker skills are clearly top notch.

As for the quality of his character and his book writing skills, those are more questionable.

[daryn]

i think you're missing the point here. no sane man on earth would argue that phil h. is not an incredible no limit holdem tourney player.. maybe the best!

when people criticize him they are talking about his limit holdem game.

but he did actually win a limit holdem tourney at the wsop , so whatever!

[daryn]

were you trying to be sarcastic? being tight isn't about what hands you play, it's about how many. say i played no hand other than 72o, i would be the tightest player in the world!

[Easy E]

because I agree with you, Phil's tournament skill have to be very good in order to have his record.

However, based on his written advice and what I've heard about his limit poker play, I'm not sure Phil's tournament mastery carries over.

Anyone know how he does in bigger ring games? Either higher limits or PL/NL?