How to play when an overcard to your high pair comes on the river

[cassandras]

Hi -- I've had this happen several times, and I'm not sure how to play it. Pacific Poker 15/30, I have something like KJ or K10 in a blind a king comes on the flop, I bet, 2-3 people call, turn I bet, 2-3 people call. Ace comes on the river...players on this site are pretty loose, it seems like someone is always chasing their ace. Do I bet and fold to a raise, or do I check?

Also, should I be trying a check-raise on the flop?

Thanks.

[Joe Tall]

Sounds like you shouldn't be playing 15/30.

Welcome to the forum,
Joe Tall

[cassandras]

Thanks, Joe. I appreciate the advice. Just trying to learn here.

[Joe Tall]

You question is extremely difficult to answer. Hold'em is extremely dynamic and opponent(s) dependant.

Sometimes you should check-raise the flop, sometimes you should bet out. Depending of the consistancy of the flop (flush/str8 draws, etc) versus different opponents you will have to adjust your play on further street accordingly.

Normally you should place a value bet when the Ace hits the river.

Look around the Small Stakes/Micro and this forum, read and reply to hands. Then post some specific hands and let the forum decide if you played it well.

Thanks, Joe. I appreciate the advice. Just trying to learn here.

I am trying to help. I think 15/30 is a little to much for the type of question you asked unless you have a fair amount of disposable income.

See you at the tables as I frequent the 15/30 on Pacific.

Again, welcome,
Joe Tall

[astroglide]

bet and fold to a raise if you feel like it. i agree that this is a question a 15 player probably shouldn't be asking.

[The WET BEAVER]

[ QUOTE ]
Normally you should place a value bet when the Ace hits the river.


[/ QUOTE ]


Joe Tall, please explain why you would normally bet in this situation, especially if it is heads-up and you are last to act.

When all there are no more cards to come and all the cards are out, the concepts change. You don't have to worry about free cards and charging opponents for draws.

In mutiway, you may get paid more if more people call.

When you're in a loose game many players play any ace and chase it down to the end. It's not a good play to automatically bet when you're heads-up on the river simply because you think you have a better hand. When you're in a loose game like this, someone is likely to have an ace, and you need to consider you the odds of winning if you are called. Someone with a pair of aces isn't throwing it away. You should consider taking a free showdown, or if you're in first position, check to induce a bluff.

[steveyz]

Because there is a good chance that your opponent will check through when you check (usually when your opponent is calling you down with a lower pair) when they would have called a river bet. It all depends on your read on your opponent. Checking to induce a bluff is fine if you believe your opponent was on a draw and missed (i.e. two of a suit on the flop and the 3rd doesn't come, etc). Against an unknown opponent, I'd bet and call a raise.

If you are playing a 15/30 where people routinely call all the way with just a ace, you'll be raking in so much money that what you do here won't matter too much to your bottom line.

[Gamblor]

Suppose my hand was something like KTs or KJs, and there was a late pos. LP preflop raiser.

Flop comes K-high, with draws, i.e. K98r.

If the LP raiser will autobet, then a checkraise is almost mandatory to get hands like QJ and QT out.

Bet the river if you think a worse K or some straight draw that caught a pair (i.e. if someone had JT and hit a J on the turn) will pay you off.

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Normally you should place a value bet when the Ace hits the river.


[/ QUOTE ]


Joe Tall, please explain why you would normally bet in this situation, especially if it is heads-up and you are last to act.

When all there are no more cards to come and all the cards are out, the concepts change. You don't have to worry about free cards and charging opponents for draws.

In mutiway, you may get paid more if more people call.

When you're in a loose game many players play any ace and chase it down to the end. It's not a good play to automatically bet when you're heads-up on the river simply because you think you have a better hand. When you're in a loose game like this, someone is likely to have an ace, and you need to consider you the odds of winning if you are called. Someone with a pair of aces isn't throwing it away. You should consider taking a free showdown, or if you're in first position, check to induce a bluff.



[/ QUOTE ]
i don't think one should "normally" value bet into a field of 2-3 people on the river when the Ace falls. Maybe headsup with position, but especially not into the PFR...

Kenny

[TimTimSalabim]

Yes, definitely check-raise the flop. That should narrow the field, especially when you follow up with a bet on the turn. Then you won't have as much to worry about when the ace falls (although someone may still chase with an ace + a draw).