AKs - How many callers do you want?

[Wayne]

UB .25/.50 NL table - All stacks close enough to $25 to not matter. Typical passive game, about half the flops are seen without any raise.

Five people limp to you. You have AKs in the BB. With your BB, the pot is currently $3.

Should you:
A. raise $1.75 (3.5x BB) and want 3-5 callers?
B. raise $3 (pot) and want 0-1 callers?

I know what I would do, but another player and I are disagreeing on how AKs should be played vs 5 limpers.

[Gomez22]

[ QUOTE ]
Should you:
A. raise $1.75 (3.5x BB) and want 3-5 callers?
B. raise $3 (pot) and want 0-1 callers?

[/ QUOTE ]

I vote answer:

C. Limp in for 2 reasons:
1. You're already way out of position for the rest of the hand, and with that many limpers, I don't think you can take it down before the flop.
2. You really need to flop a big hand here against that many players to come out betting strong on the flop, as any cards that come on the flop(short of the flush) are going to be hitting someone else as well.

Just my personal opinion, but from the blinds, I usually (65% of the time) limp with AK or AKs, but maybe I put too much emphesis on position.....

[Wayne]

[ QUOTE ]

C. Limp in for 2 reasons:
1. You're already way out of position for the rest of the hand, and with that many limpers, I don't think you can take it down before the flop.
2. You really need to flop a big hand here against that many players to come out betting strong on the flop, as any cards that come on the flop(short of the flush) are going to be hitting someone else as well.


[/ QUOTE ]

If you limp, are you basically playing for the flush or sraight? With five limpers, TPTK would be difficult to play, no?

Although with the pot low. TPTK might be easier to play. You can bet the pot ($3) and still get away from the hands.

[Zag]

I don't fundamentally disagree with the approach of checking the BB, here. Just remember that you want to find a big hand with AK against 5 opponents. TPTK is never enough to bet your whole stack on with several opponents, because some idiot has two pair with his J5. I will limp with AKs more often than with AKo, because it has that much more chance of making a big hand. Note, however, that with the top two flush cards in your hand, no one else can make the second nut flush -- the best they can do is third nut -- so they will be even less likely to spend their whole stack on it.

However, more often than limping, I will raise pot and hope to get only 1 caller, which is AK's favorite situation. Even out of position, this plays pretty well after the flop. If you do flop TPTK against only one opponent, you can either bet out or check-raise and you will find out where you stand pretty quickly.

The one choice that is awful is making a small bet which is not enough to push anyone out. You have helped to define your hand (out of position), and given everyone else implied odds to outplay you and break you. Either limp and play for a big hand or make a real raise and try to win it right there or play heads up.

[Gomez22]

In the given situation, I think maybe 80% of the time you raise to $3.00, you're still likely to get 2 callers at these limits, unles you have a very good table image and have some opponents that are "aware".

Further assuming you ahve 2 callers, you're going to have around a $10 pot on the flop. If the flop doesn't hit you, then you're in a quandry as to how to play the hand. You can bet pot here on the flop, get called, and more than likely fold if not improving on the turn, or you may take the pot down with the pot bet on the flop.

I just can't see raising into this big of a field out of position with a hand needing help to win the pot. Limping and check-raising the flop if it hits you are what I would consider better options....

If you can narrow it to 1 player, then I agree that raising is your best option, but if you have any doubts, then I think limping is the better play.

[Richie Rich]

I, too, would probably limp with AKs from the BB because: (1) you're out of position for the entire hand, (2) you "give away" the strength of your hand, & (3) you eliminate your opportunity to make a nice c/r should the flop/turn be nice.

[The Ram]

I agree the most w/ the comment about your ability to checkraise the flop if you hit hard. 6 handed, you've built up a decent little pot for yourself, and being in the big blind, they certainly aren't giving you credit for AKs.

I definitely favor a limp in this situation, unless you KNOW that you're going to get a lot of folds.

[cornell2005]

i also like the ability to check raise the flop or turn if you hit. just off the top of my head:

if someone pairs on the flop with their small ace or even small king, at these limits they will usually come out betting on the flop, probably some sort of underbet. if when it comes back to you there arnt any more callers, you can checkraise without much worry for him having you beat with 2 pair, ect. so now your in great position.

if instead someone flops 2 pair, they will likely just check with this many limpers hoping for a bet behind them, unless they are in very last position. now you can just check again if you suspect this, and they lose alot of potential money in the pot. perhaps playing it this way may solve some 25NL players leaks with AK. with this many limpers, there seems to be a huge potential to win a little and lose a lot. betting out big post flop with this many people in the pot is bad, since you dont particularly want callers and you will almost always get some from the calling stations. now you put yourself in a bad position, wondering if hes slowrolling you or is just a bad player.

[Wayne]

Thanks for all the feedback. I didn't give limping much thought at first. It gives me something to think about.


Here's how the hand played out:

5 limpers to me on the BB, and I have AKs. I bet the pot $3. EP calls, everyone else folds. I got one caller, just like I wanted.

Flop is [Q 9 9] giving me a flush draw. I'm probably ahead, and I have plenty of outs as well. I pot it for $9, and EP calls. Now I'm scared. He could easily be slowplaying a Q here.

Turn is an Ace. Sweet! Now I can beat a Q and I still have a flush draw to beat an unlikely 9. I push my $8, and he calls again. The river is a King for a better two-pair, but no help against a 9. But the pot does come to me.

He mucks, so I look it up in HH. He had AQo. I had 12 outs on the river and caught one the hard way. I thought I played the hand well, but I still needed to get lucky on the river.

For you limpers preflop, what do you do on the flop? I'm checking and hoping to draw to the flush cheaply. Is there a better way to play this?

[jmark]

[ QUOTE ]
if instead someone flops 2 pair, they will likely just check with this many limpers hoping for a bet behind them, unless they are in very last position. now you can just check again if you suspect this, and they lose alot of potential money in the pot. perhaps playing it this way may solve some 25NL players leaks with AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems like a leak to me -- you hit your ace on the flop but check the whole way because you're worried someone might have hit 2 pair? If you're automatically convinced someone has 2 pair are you going to fold from a bet by the button now that everyone's checked the flop?

Personally I would rather raise pre-flop to clear out J5o and get called by ATo, etc. Then you don't have to worry as much about 2 pair and you can play the hand aggressively. Maybe it's just because I never seem to hit my flush? Or maybe I should change my thinking?