Is this weak?

kenewbie · #1 04-01-2004, 05:13 AM

I'm sort of recovering from a tilt where I lost a lot of money playing good cards as if they where the nuts. Im not sure if this is too weak?

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls.

I'm playing this slowly with a bet rather than a checkraise, I flopped a hand and I want to get paid.

Turn: (5.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, UTG folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, MP3 folds, CO folds, Hero calls.

oops. Paired boards are scary. I need to get some people out of this pot now. Checkraising seems to have a better effect than just betting out. The fact that BB 3-bets doesnt hurt either. Although I'm beginning to entertian the idea that he has a boat.

River: (13.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, Hero calls.

Ok so he raises, confident in his hand. If this was 6 days ago I'm pretty sure I would have reraised here but I've lost so many straights and flushes on paired boards lately I'm playing without much confidence. I just call. 

Final Pot: 17.50 BB
Main Pot: 17.50 BB, between Hero and BB. > Pot won by Hero (17.50 BB).

Results in white below: 
Hero shows 9h Tc (straight, queen high).
BB shows Jd Kd (three of a kind, jacks).
Outcome: Hero wins 17.50 BB. 

Knowing the outcome I missed 2-3 bets. Am I playing like a sissy? In retrospect I can see that if the BB really made a boat on the turn he would probably raise the flop seeing as he had two pairs, was bet into and had a nice chance at scaring out some chasers. oh well.

k

blackaces13 · #2 04-01-2004, 05:21 AM

You could have capped the turn here but its not a huge mistake. You played the hand fine IMO, checkraising the flop is a bad idea you'd rather be able to 3 bet it after getting raised.

The river wasn't good for you so I wouldn't 3 bet him either. Knowing this site you will probably get people telling you needed to cap the turn and river here but I don't think thats the case. Nice hand.

Guido · #3 04-01-2004, 05:49 AM

Your preflop call is ok when you can throw your hand away when you don't hit hard. You flop a monster and you want everybody to pay so betting out is the best action. You don't want to drive people out by C/R with your monster. [ QUOTE ]
I need to get some people out of this pot now.

[/ QUOTE ]
Uhm why? Or you're already beat on the turn or they have only 4 outs in which case I don't mind them staying. When I hold something like JT or KJ I'm not going to fold to your C/R. I'm not going to fold a four flush either. People who have a good hand aren't going to fold and people who have two pair I don't mind staying so why C/R? I would bet out and hope somebody with a J will raise me so I can 3-bet. When they cap I check-call the river when they don't I bet out on the river and call a raise. Now you C/R and have no idea whether his 3-bet means a boat or not (or overplayed trips which you won't find out). By betting out and 3-betting a cap probably means a boat so you can check-call the river. When you only calls your 3-bet you can bet out on the river. I think by playing this way makes it a lot easier to put your opponent on a hand.

Guido

kenewbie · #4 04-01-2004, 07:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Uhm why? Or you're already beat on the turn or they have only 4 outs in which case I don't mind them staying.

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you get 4 outs? Anyone holding a J and not allready holding a boat has 10 outs to a hand that kills my straight the way I figure it. 9 outs to a boat and 1 to four of a kind.

My idea was to checkraise to make it expensive enough for (hopefully) some of them to fold, and display my strength.

[ QUOTE ]

When I hold something like JT or KJ I'm not going to fold to your C/R. I'm not going to fold a four flush either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats true. I think I see your point, the only hands I was really getting out of this pot was the ones I had beaten anyway, the others are in it for the long run.

[ QUOTE ]

People who have a good hand aren't going to fold and people who have two pair I don't mind staying so why C/R? I would bet out and hope somebody with a J will raise me so I can 3-bet. When they cap I check-call the river when they don't I bet out on the river and call a raise. Now you C/R and have no idea whether his 3-bet means a boat or not (or overplayed trips which you won't find out).

[/ QUOTE ]

Aaah, see this is good information. Although I can understand what you say now I'm a long way from being able to think like that while the hand is being played [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Hopefully that will come in time.

k

StellarWind · #5 04-01-2004, 01:10 PM

The flop bet is correct. I think the checkraise on the turn is a nice touch because someone was likely to put you on a semibluff and pick up the ball. Note that this is totally about gaining bets. I don't believe you can appreciably improve your chances of winning the hand regardless of how you play the turn. The draws you fear are not going to fold no matter what.

You need to cap the turn. You trapped a jack, now punish him. He can't fold because he has outs so he just has to absorb the -EV bet. I certainly don't grasp how you can call the 3-bet and then bet the river when a poor card comes. That's just inconsistent.

Not capping the turn and checkraising the river (unless the board pairs) would be a good alternative play. That could save you a bet when the river is a disaster.