Isolation wars (and casualties)

[stripsqueez]

i find this table scenario to be common in the short handed games i play - i hate being too tight but my response is to tighten up considerably when isolating - where there is ink there are squid - isolating the bad guy is a dangerous thing when everybody is doing it and everybody knows everybody is doing it

i folded on the turn too as i read your post - i like capping the flop and betting out - fold or raise strikes again

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[legend42]

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On the flop, why do you abandon your read. If you think your hand is good at this point, you want to cap it and come out betting on the turn.

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You're right. I was just hard for me to keep my foot on the pedal with just second pair after all that playback on the flop. What I was hoping for was not to get into a war with a moderate hand, but simply to look them up, sensing they were both overplaying, trying to push each other (and me) off their hands.

I would have gladly called a turn bet and a river bet-as long as an ace didn't hit the board- even an overcall with all three players still in. But when it came back for $60 to me, I abandoned my read. And I actually don't feel that bad about it. Any one of those players could have easily had a queen, and played the same way.

[legend42]

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Please explain why folding here is insane. The LP raiser can have a variety of hands.

On the other hand, I would certainly at least call here with QQ (and likely cap). It's just that JJ is not strong enough....

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You have a point. To be honest, I never considered folding preflop. I hadn't been out of line at this table. I hadn't even taken full advantage of my fish+2 position; I prefer to isolate 'maniac' fish rather than 'calling station' fish, as I trap better than I pound. So I thought my 3-bet preflop would get more respect than it did.

My first thought afterward was, how could they have overplayed their hands like that? But it all sort of makes sense in hindsight. LP is praying I capped preflop with AK (and it looks like that’s possible from the way I played it), and hoping that the button is pushing with a flush draw (which he is, with added outs). The fish will be calling with even a 2 or 3, or a baby flush or straight draw or practically anything, so his calls aren’t too worrisome. He thought he might be value betting.

Meanwhile, the button's logic might have been that both his draw and the pot were big enough that he was just going to go balls to the wall and hopefully be the last man standing. It is amazing how many of these gigantic multiway pots wind up going uncalled at the end.

The thing that bugs me is, I basically made this read while I was still in the pot. But I panicked at the thought of just calling this hand down, when I didn’t know how expensive it was going to be, or if I even had any outs.

[Bartholow]

Given the aggression that was shown by these players, I can't see folding ANY pair preflop really. If you hit a set you will make plenty. However, I would not cap JJ here, and would consider check-folding the flop. (As it turns out this would also be a disaster but... so be it)