Wired 8's in NL Tourney

[gunbuster]

A hand came up the other day that I was wondering about. It'd about 2/3 way through a multi-table tourney. I have about 27000 chips, which is just about average. At this point in time, the antes are 200, blinds 1000-2000. We're playing 10 handed when I'm dealt 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in the cut off. I decide to limp if its not raised.

Interestingly enough, 5 of the 7 players ahead of me limp. I limp, the button limps, the SB completes and the BB checks. So we have 8 players going into the flop with 20K in the pot.

The flop comes, 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

SB checks, the BB aptly named "maniac" makes a weak bet of 3,000 TC at a pot of 20K. It all folds around to me. I smell weakness and wonder if my 8's are the best hand. The pot is almost equal to my stack (23K vs 25k). If I make any significant play at the pot I will be pretty committed.

What do you do?

[kerssens]

I think you have to be ready to play for all your chips here or fold....limping preflop generally means no set-no bet, I probably would have raised this up preflop to get the blinds and the last few limpers out of the pot and have good position for the later rounds.

[gunbuster]

I limped exactly with the intent of hitting my set or folding, as that's all I figure the 8's were going to be good for after all the limps pre-flop. Now, when the maniac bets weak on the flop and it folds to me, I sensed some weakness and wondered if I could move in and take the pot here.

I wouldn't mind if someone with two overcards like AK called, but if someone with an a large pair calls, I'll be drawing pretty thin. The other thing that went through my head -- if I move in it may look a lot like a bet that does not want to be called (which I don't, I want to take the 23K in the middle right now).

So the question for me was -- do I fold now, or do I move in? I would have found it hard to fold with a baby bet into me and a lot of weakness shown. I'd be afraid of 99, TT, and JJ. I figure that QQ, KK and AA are likely to raise pre-flop, although not always. A lot of people limp with big pairs.

[kerssens]

The bet shows a flush draw or straight draw to me but I've been wrong before....Since I didn't actually answer the question before here's what I would likely have done....Probably raised 4-5x his bet, but if this guy is as much of a maniac as I'm picturing I wouldn't have been surprised if he'd come over the top of me so all my chips would have been in the pot........what did you do and what happened??

[BradleyT]

With that many limpers you have to figure someone most likely has a flush draw. You don't have enough chips here to make a flush draw "wrong" to chase even if you go all in since the pot is already so large. They'd be getting 2:1 or more on their call.

You can call and see what the turn brings, but I think I'd rather wait for a real hand before dumping all my chips in.

[Greg (FossilMan)]

Why does this bet smell weak to you? If the person is like many other maniacs, they would look at this flop, figure it didn't hit any of the limpers, and they'd make a real bet into it, not a measly bet. It seems at least as likely to me that the maniac has a monster hand here. Maybe even the nut straight.

Call and see what the turn brings, and what the maniac does on the turn.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[gunbuster]

I thought about it for a few seconds then moved my entire stack in. The button thought about it for really long time before he finally called. The SB and BB folded. Cards turned over and I was against TT. Ulp!. The turn brought a 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], which made now gave me additional outs for the straight. No 4, 8 or 9 on the river and I'm on the rail.

[PiquetteAces]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
Call and see what the turn brings, and what the maniac does on the turn.


[/ QUOTE ]

He has T25k$ &amp; there is almost the samething in the pot .In this situation , once I see the flop I would go All-in unless :

#1 - too much action in front of me ; a bet , a raise someone call all-in , etc

#2 - Big stack bet EP , &amp; the gibraltar ROCK with a big stack come over the top .

#3 - An EP ' player is well known for always limp EP with AA/KK in NL HE &amp; he shows strenght on the flop .

In the situation , the hero describe ; calling would give an almost free card for other player behind with straight or flush draw .

Fossilman , your comments would be highly appreciated , tx .

[Greg (FossilMan)]

Yes, you could be giving a free/cheap card here by just calling. However, with this many people taking the flop, 88 is nowhere near a big favorite. Plus, it's going to be hard to get rid of the big draws here anyway. Flush draws are going to have two overcards or a straight draw here, so they're going to think they might have 15 outs instead of 9, and go for it anyway.

See what happens when you call. If a player or two behind you goes all-in, you can figure you're well behind, and fold. If a flush or straight card comes, you can still get away from the hand as well.

There is a chance you'll give away the pot by just calling, but more often than not you won't affect the outcome, except that YOU can sometimes get away from the hand without getting all-in.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[curtains]

One note - You claim you were going to limp if the pot wasnt raised in front of you, but thats definitely the wrong mindset to have in this situation. If everyone folds to me and I have 88 on the cutoff in this situation, Im going to raise to 5k-6k (most likely 5k.....note that I think one should usually raise less than 2.5x late in a touranment if the BB is shortstacked, since you will have to play with them whether they go allin or not, but will lose less if late position or SB wakes up with a big hand.)
Id probably go allin preflop, and allin postflop (I'm assuming this is a $11 rebuy tourney on stars, as there is no other tournament where I could ever imagine 5 limpers when the blinds are 1000-2000). I'd go allin preflop because the people in these things call with garbage too much, but USUALLY have enough fear to fold their KJo to giant allin bet preflop. More importantly the pot is gigantic, and its a huge score if everyone folds. It's also a huge score to gamble heads up against overcards here.
TT would have been very very hard pressed to have called you here preflop (although id say its likely they would call in this type of event)