Playing QJo UTG - I should know better..,

[webiggy]

This was played last night at a very good 1/2 game at party last night (redundant I know). This game was so good that I decided to play this hand. My curiosity is that given the activity on this hand, how long would you have stayed with it? I knew I was likely up against a flush, but had no idea it was this bad. Anyway, your thoughts are always appreciated

Iggy

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 raises, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, MP3 raises, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (8.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

River: (17.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 20.75 BB

Results in white

<font color="white"> Hero loses $12 with str to Q
MP1 Loses $12 with JJ and a Q high Straight
UTG+1 wins $40.50 with 3s2s and a nine high flush. </font>

[Joe Tall]

Fold preflop.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[Louie Landale]

Trouble hands don't get really get better as the number of players increase. Still toss these early.

If the game is "really good" you have no reason to try to make a hopeless play at it. And if you CAN realistically get a raiser to lay down a hand when you have a gut draw then its not that good a game and you still shouldn't be playing QJo early.

Turn check-raise looks pretty bad. Exepect everyone except the stiff J to check.

One feature of a "good game" is when players over-play there hands for whatever the reason. The only valid reasons are [] the other opponent is WAY over-playing the hand, or [] you can realistically steal it.

- Louie

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
This was played last night at a very good 1/2 game at party last night (redundant I know). This game was so good that I decided to play this hand

[/ QUOTE ]

The conditions that ordinarily make a game "good" are particularly bad for playing QJo UTG. I ain't no Preflop Nazi, but that hand stinks.

[BugsBunny]

Yes, you should know better.

Since your in it - on the flop you have a bettor, a raiser, a cold-caller - with 3 to the flush showing. This doesn't bode well. I would have little confidence that my str8 was good and almost no confidence that my overcards pairing would be good. That leaves me drawing to the 3rd nut flush, or a runner/runner str8 flush.

So I have 9 outs for the non-nut flush, in a hand with a lot of flop action. I checked and have to call 2 cold getting 12-2 at the time of the call. I probably make this call, although I'm really not happy with any aspect of this hand and am saying to myself "why didn't I just fold pre-flop - then I wouldn't be in this mess".

Turn comes - you made your nut str8 - whoopee. Self is going "Damn now I still have to stick around, but I'm not real happy here. Well lets see if anyone really has a flush out there. I know - I'll c/r, yeah that's the ticket!! and then if I get reraised I'll know I might be in trouble."

So we check, planning to c/r. But what happens? Same thing as on the flop. MP1 bets, MP3 raises - and you decide to 3 bet? Bad move. Better move would have been to bet out on the turn - that may have slowed them down since you hadn't shown any aggression previously. If you get raised (or worse raised and re-raised) then you have to really hope that
A. a spade comes on the river
B. neither of them is holding a A or K of spades.
C. one of them has the K spades, the other has the A of spades, they're both drawing and overplaying, and no spade comes.
D. they're both overplaying some other lesser hand.


River - about the only way to play it.

So basically the only place you could *really* let this hand go is pre-flop (which is where you should have let it go). I think the turn play was bad as well. Betting out would have been much better.

[webiggy]

Yep yep yep

I know your right and this the flogging exercise I'm after.

Please more abuse - I deserve it..,

[AndyatSD]

A good reminder to help me keep in mind not to play QJo UTG =) I seem to love that hand along with QTo =(

What I don't understand is how did UTG+1 win the pot if UTG+1 check-folded on the turn? I realize it was MP3 that took the pot, but the results in white doesn't seem to indicate so [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

~andy