QQ, easy fold?

[mosta]

QQ in SB. MP limp, CO limp. I raise. 3 see:

Ah As Td
I go for the check-raise. MP bets, CO calls, I raise. MP folds--very good, sir. CO calls.

2s
I bet, CO raises. I fold. good fold?

[gonores]

I guess I really don't get the check-raise idea on the flop. If you bet out against these guys, they'll usually call the flop and raise your turn bet with an ace, so you have all the info you need to fold, for a price that is 1SB smaller than what you paid.

Given the way you played it, looks like a good laydown.

Doug

[Dynasty]

It was probably a good fold.

But, in these situations, I'm always aware of the possibility of Ts9s (or similar hand) being my opponent's hand.

[ QUOTE ]
MP folds--very good

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Why? What hand do you think he folded that you wanted him to fold?

[mosta]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
MP folds--very good

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Why? What hand do you think he folded that you wanted him to fold?

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I just wanted to confirm that he didn't have an ace. A fold or a call would have been fine, with a fold being less scary. Once I got overcards (with potentially more to come) I wanted to get out, with the pot, asap.

[Nate tha' Great]

People hate making these sort of calldowns because it feels so fishy and goes against everything that you're taught in hand-reading class. He played it *exactly* like a typical opponent would who had flopped trips.

Nevertheless, you should call down against an unknown opponent. You need to win the hand about 20% of the time to break even. You'll river a Queen 5% of the time, and in my estimation he will be bluffing at least the 15% of the time to get you to where you need. T's are contained in a lot of limping hands in these games.

[mosta]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess I really don't get the check-raise idea on the flop. If you bet out against these guys, they'll usually call the flop and raise your turn bet with an ace, so you have all the info you need to fold, for a price that is 1SB smaller than what you paid.

Given the way you played it, looks like a good laydown.

Doug

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you make a good point. I check-raised because once I had overs (with potentially more to come) I wanted to get the pot and get out. I wanted to find out if someone had an ace as quickly as possible. I represented an ace. Whoever doesn't have an ace should fold to my flop check-raise or my turn bet. If I bet the flop and they call me down to the river that's 2.5 BB. I check raise and fold to turn raise for 2 BB. Plausible? I'm not sure. Question is do I expect them to lay down to a turn bet after them calling my flop bet, which would support your line. What I'm really hoping for is to be three-bet on the flop, once I've provoked them with a raise, if they have an ace.

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I guess I really don't get the check-raise idea on the flop. If you bet out against these guys, they'll usually call the flop and raise your turn bet with an ace, so you have all the info you need to fold, for a price that is 1SB smaller than what you paid.

Given the way you played it, looks like a good laydown.

Doug

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I think you make a good point. I check-raised because once I had overs (with potentially more to come) I wanted to get the pot and get out. I wanted to find out if someone had an ace as quickly as possible. I represented an ace. Whoever doesn't have an ace should fold to my flop check-raise or my turn bet. If I bet the flop and they call me down to the river that's 2.5 BB. I check raise and fold to turn raise for 2 BB. Plausible? I'm not sure. Question is do I expect them to lay down to a turn bet after them calling my flop bet, which would support your line. What I'm really hoping for is to be three-bet on the flop, once I've provoked them with a raise, if they have an ace.

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If the check-raise is intended to ferret out whether somebody else has an ace -- and that's how I'd read the check-raise at the table -- aren't you encouraging somebody who doesn't have an ace to pretend that they do? Another reason to call down.

[mosta]

I don't know. I can't figure out how to simplify this hand. In a way, the flop check-raise indicates that I don't have an ace. Maybe I needed to check the turn...

[N4CER1]

What I think is interesting is that you went for a check raise ?? with AA on the flop and you hold QQ.....Players play any A all of the time.....so IMO you should have just bet out and see if you get raised right away....If not.....bet out again and see again.....You probably were beat......