Raise Preflop - Bet Flop Everytime?

[theBruiser500]

In supersystem, Brunson says everytime he raises the pot preflop, he's going to bet the flop. A couple of things I want to clarify first... Just ignore partypoker stack sizes, assume they're bigger, like 100xBB 200xBB 300xBB (How would these different stack sizes affect this?). Also, ignore multiway pots, obviously if there are 4 people in a pot and the flop comes KJ2 or something and I have nothing to that flop I'm going to check.

Some people on here (tewall comes to mind) have said that betting the flop after raising preflop everytime is a leak. How is it a leak? It's what Brunson suggested, and I do it too.

Any comments about any aspects of this issue appreciated.

danny

[scrub]

Anybody paying attention is going to bully you to death on the turn. And at 100 BB, you're frequently going to create pots so big that you can't win them with hands that would have won if the pot were smaller and you could bet again/call down without getting yourself in.

Brunson's style was revolutionary when the book was published because almost every other player was weak tight. And the stacks were insanely deep. Between the max-buy games that most of us play in, and the fact that players don't play the samme way anymore, SuperSystem should come with a warning label. I've seen more than one player read it and develop a ton of leaks as a result.

But then again you don't do it--you pumped it up with your TT then checked a K high flop when checked to in a post from last week. Doyle would not have been pleased.

scrub

[Zag]

As Scrub says, opponents are very different now than they were when the book was written. If you play against me and always bet when checked to after raising preflop, you will get the note "Check-raise bait" attached to you. You don't want that.

On the other hand, you should often bet when checked to, if you raised preflop. With a hand like TT, if the flop comes up with a J, Q, or K (and only the one overcard), you should bet it almost every the time. If you are called, you probably still have the best hand, and if you are check-raised, you can pretty safely lay it down. Note that, if you always bet after raising preflop, you can't lay this sort of hand down as easily, when check-raised, because you have pretty much asked the table to check-raise bluff you.

[theBruiser500]

One of the few times I'll check after raising the flop is if I have a pocket pair 99-KK and an overcard falls. If I'm first to act I'll bet out, but if I'm last to act I'll very often check it, call a turn bet and then if he makes a bet again on the river I'll make a decision. This seems like a very good time to check after raising preflop, why don't you like it Zag?

danny

[Krytemaster]

Another thing that made this thing work for Doyle besides that the games might be different now is his playing style - being hyperaggressive. If an opponent raise him he will very often comes back over the top and put them all-in. He will do this both with draws and made hands and consequently the opponents won´t know where he´s at.

This means that opponents won´t checkraise/reraise him that often because they know that their whole stack might very well be in danger if they are going to play the hand.

I think you can bet out on the flop more often when raised pre if the opponents are afraid of you and knows that their whole stack will have to go to the middle to see turn and river. But to be able to play like this successfully you have to be a good card reader and knows when to stop being aggressive.

A last thing that comes along with this playing style is that opponents will more often try to trap you and then its not as dangerous to bet out on the flop either. Many players will just smooth call these players with good hands instead of raise them to let the aggressor keep betting into them on fourth street because they don´t want to take the aggressor out of the lead and thus give the aggressor one or even two free cards - another advantage of this playing style.

[Wardfish]

Also consider your table image.

If you bet the flop every time you raised pre-flop you'll get played with more the more often you raise pre-flop.
Opponents are gonna think "He can't have a big hand every time!"

If you're smart, you'll be doing it with position more often than not.

[AJo Go All In]

because your hand is still very vulnerable, and if it is best it is not a good idea to give a free card. not to mention the fact that you may get something like JJ to fold if you have TT.