Moral question - bots

[jedi]

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jedi,

we do have very high ethics, if we didn't we wouldn't be here being 100% honest about who we are, what we want, what we have done.

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Being honest about cheating doesn't make it ethical.

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i simply want to live at the top of the food chain. logically speaking, if you are somewhere in the middle or at the bottom then you view everyone above you as 'unethical'.

roaches hate birds,
birds hate cats,
cats hate dogs,
dogs hate southeast asians,

you are upset for the EXACT same reasons we were.
other people were not playing by the rules. i.e. :
1) they were using bots and/or
2) they were colluding.
and the opcs were powerless to stop them,
and we were powerless to stop them.

so jedi, we had several choices,
1) quit playing online poker. (nope we enjoy it too much).
2) maintain our honorable gazelle ethics and just try and run faster than the fastest lion or ...
3) we could defect ... and adopt a new set of ethics and become a lion.

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Again, all you're doing is joining them. Hardly "high ethics." What we're doing as gazelles is working out and getting lion muscles and lion teeth. That's the way to become the lion.

What you're doing is cheating. You can't justify it by "changing ethics." Cheating is immoral, not just unethical.

[GrannyMae]

i guess you missed this thread and my questions. i'll repost it here.

you really should try to answer all posters, not just the ones that give you a chance to spew your bile.

[ QUOTE ]
Mr. WimpHodemSupportMan,

what say ye about these oft repeated, but always dodged questions:

1. if carlton sheets could make a million using his system, then why would he have to resort to SELLING said system for 3 easy payments of $19.95?
(insert any get rich quick charlatan for example)

2. how do you respond to the chrges/speculation that your product alone could destroy online poker completely by the "evil few" who misuse your product?

3. what would the impact of an MSNBC story showing 9 guys, that NO LONGER need to be in the same frat house/dorm room, using your product to fleece players that have no clue such technology exists? Do you think this would discourage newbies, and possibly even attract MORE scum to the game? (not to mention enforcement agencies, college admins etc)

4. what do you have planned for us to supplement our incomes after YOUR product dries up the pond?


please keep your response to these questions, and don't skirt or divert like you do at rgp. this is a moderated board, so you must provide substance to your contributions here, else your presence is NADA but spam.

the flo' is yo's. reply properly or be gone.





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thx in advance


Granny

[blackaces13]

I got some questions on ethics here regarding stealing where no blood is involved and it is against people trying to defeat in a game with monetary rewards. I don't think any of these violate your theory of ethhics as you describe it so here goes:

1. You sit down at a 2/4 game against some retirees. These people are trying to take your money so you should try to take their's. The guy sitting next you's chips are a little close to yours and neither of you are using racks. He's getting a drink and the people in the hand are transfixed on the royal flush that just hit the board. Is it OK for you to slide a few stacks of his redbirds into your working stack? Assume you do not think he will notice anytime soon (he has Alzheimers) and you were planning on leaving the table soon anyway.

2. Same situation, an elderly gentleman took out a money clip to buy another $40 in chips and you notice he has a thick roll of 100 dollar bills in it. A little later the man gets up to use the restroom and you follow him to find the bathroom empty except for you and him. Is it ok to extort $3000 from this man with the threat of physical violence? Assume you are NEVER planning on playing in this casino again and that as soon as he hands you the money you will leave and likely not be caught.

3. You are a PGA player and on Sunday of the Masters you trail Tiger Woods by a shot on the back 9. This tourny pays over $1,000,000 to the winner!!! 2nd gets maybe $500,000. Hey, this guy is trying to take a half million from you here using only superior golfing skill, screw that. On the tee box you ask Tiger if you can see his driver, he lets you and you smear a little vaseline on the grip ensuring that when he hits the ball the clubface will open up and he'll flare it to the right. After he does that you run ahead of him and walk along the rough and casually step on his ball driving it deeper into the rough and making it impossible for him to hit a good recovery shot. Assume you have quanitified the slim chance that you will be caught here as being outweighed by a better shot at the Green Jacket.

So all this stuff is cool right? We should all just assume that our opponents in every venture will being resorting to similiar tactics so we should utilize them ourselves in order to be higer on the foodchain right?

There's something called honor and trust that human society needs to exist. Being completely void of both makes life meaningless.

[MS Sunshine]

"i have a very strong conscience that prevents me from hurting the innocent because i would lose peace of mind."

ROFLMAO

We know you're just here trying to drum up biz and trying to sway with your party line those that might purchase your product that there are no rules and people are doing it to you so your just weak if you're not willing to fight on even terms. Yada yada yada typical spammer code of honor bs. If you must start these threads could you just come out and make whatever statement you want and just have one username like the rest of us.

Poker has rules, very complex to a newbie, but posters and luckers here know what they are. In live poker and internet poker it is one player to a hand. There is no team poker, but your product needs there to be because that is what you can provide. Long-term I think you will speed the poker sites response to bots, because yours cheat. This is good for me. The newies and the winning players are both against winning bots. From what I understand you are far that. Party has 35K players every night and you might have 40 bots/teams using your software. Your impact is almost entirely PR that sheds a poor light on internet poker.

There are many winning posters and lurkers here that work hard and don't take unfair advantage at poker. The major danger of a winning bot at the low limits is it is scaleable and would disrupt the normal flow of money from low limit games to higher games arriving in the better players pocket after the site's rake has taken most of it.

Anything that would disrupt a large site's rake will be taken seriously. You will get some good money and your customers that get barred will be here asking how to get around it. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Could I ask just one thing? If you reply to this post don't use several lame weak-ass analogies to make your point. You are in the biz of selling a cheating supply and should expand to a full line. Mark cards, with colbalt glasses and the like.

MS Sunshine

[kdog]

[N4CER1]

You can run a bot on most sites....I have a friend that does it all of the time........

[N4CER1]

Party Poker shut you guys down huh???? for now????

[Hung]

I don't know if anyone remembers that I talked about a friend that is making a Poker games with AI.
That same guy is now trying to make a bot. He says that it's too hard to make a bot to beat the higher limits. But he would be able to make one that plays 6 tables and win 2-3 bucks an hour playing the smaller limits. That means he could make $10-$20/hour doing nothing. Bot is not working yet. First I was worried and jealous. I'm not worried anymore because most of the bots play limit. One day I'll have to start worrying when they come to NL. I'm not jealous anymore because he has been working on that bot for almost a year with no result. That guy is no programmer, he just started with it for fun. So there're many good programmers out there with a good bot. I'll keep my eyes open for tables that do not talk at all [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
You can run a bot on most sites....I have a friend that does it all of the time........

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[WinHoldemSupport]

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Party Poker shut you guys down huh???? for now????


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why do you say that?
winholdem works perfectly fine on party.

there are so many people out there that are just so mis-informed it is pathetic.

http://www.winholdem.net/notices.html


winholdem support.

[WinHoldemSupport]

we are in the business of selling programmable pokerbots.
it is a profitable business.
if this causes those that do not use a bot to be at a disadvantage, then we view their situation as good for our business. sooner or later they will buy a bot and it will likely be winholdem since it is the best programmable pokerbot available.

what part of our business motives do you not understand?

winholdem support.