Moral question - bots

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]
jedi,

here is the fundamental difference between us.

i do not experience a loss in the quality of my life if i win money in an online poker game (with or without a bot, with or without teaming). i do not lose sleep, i do not feel compassion for the opponents that lost. if i did i probably would not play poker or have engaged in any competitive sports all through school.

however you apparently, would experience a loss in the quality of your life due to a damaged conscience if you used a bot and/or colluded in an online poker game.

and i do not think less of you for that. i dont call you names like - "little girl, or goody two shoes, or twinkle toes or tattletale" (or any other word used to refer to those whose moral preferences are viewed as too strict) the same way you call me names because my behavior is not to your liking.

winholdem support.

[/ QUOTE ]

So basically what you're saying is that your conscience isn't bothered by cheating, while mine is. And you have the audacity to think I shouldn't be bothered by your actions. Just because some people cheat doesn't make it okay for you to do so. It's like the baseball union and steroids. The 80-90% of players should stand up against the cheaters. That's what we're doing here. Don't throw your moral relativism onto us. We're trying to keep the game clean.

[WinHoldemSupport]

jedi,

[ QUOTE ]

That's what we're doing here. Don't throw your moral relativism onto us. We're trying to keep the game clean


[/ QUOTE ]

i totally understand. there is nothing wrong with "wanting" the game the way you want it.

i've been completely honest with you.

i just simply want you to publically admit that it is an absolute impossibility to keep the game clean in an internet environment no matter how badly you want to or no matter how badly i want to.

if you disagree with me, then all i ask is that you please explain how and where i can go and play poker online with a 100% guarantee that no bots are being used and nobody is colluding against me.

and of course i expect that you will do neither. and i further assert that there a lot of players like yourself - a whole lot. and i offer you as evidence that that neither bots nor teaming will kill online poker as some have stated.

bots are here to stay regardless.

the issue of collusion can be rendered moot with forced antes and forced hand reveals for all players after the showdown.

winholdem support.

[jedi]

This is what I will admit. There are cheaters out there, and it's impossible to crack down 100% on it. This is in agreement with you. I don't think bots will kill the game, if they're not colluding. However, if it's against the terms of agreement that are in a Poker site's rules, then using them is wrong. Colluding on the other hand IS wrong and any attempts to justify them as "team poker" and "everyone else does it" falls woefully short in the ethics department. The fact that you continue to do it and promote it for sites that aren't specifically "team poker" sites is disgraceful.

If you want to play team poker, start your own website.

[ QUOTE ]
jedi,

i totally understand. there is nothing wrong with "wanting" the game the way you want it.

i've been completely honest with you.

i just simply want you to publically admit that it is an absolute impossibility to keep the game clean in an internet environment no matter how badly you want to or no matter how badly i want to.

if you disagree with me, then all i ask is that you please explain how and where i can go and play poker online with a 100% guarantee that no bots are being used and nobody is colluding against me.

and of course i expect that you will do neither. and i further assert that there a lot of players like yourself - a whole lot. and i offer you as evidence that that neither bots nor teaming will kill online poker as some have stated.

bots are here to stay regardless.

the issue of collusion can be rendered moot with forced antes and forced hand reveals for all players after the showdown.

winholdem support.

[/ QUOTE ]

[toots]

Andy Kaufman lives.

This is a total joke.

[WinHoldemSupport]

jedi,

we have started our own casino, its called poker professional. (still under development).

i feel about as ethical as a lion killing a gazelle.

im sure the gazelle thinks the lion is being terribly unethical. the lion on the other hand doesn't care what the gazelle thinks ... only how he tastes (which is good).

you are sorely deluded if you think poker is ethical.
my god man, you could be a poker priest.

winholdem support.

[jedi]

Weren't you the one that said you had the highest of ethics? It's nice that you compare yourself to animals. Humans can think.

[ QUOTE ]
jedi,

you are sorely deluded if you think poker is ethical.
my god man, you could be a poker priest.

winholdem support.

[/ QUOTE ]

[WinHoldemSupport]

jedi,

we do have very high ethics, if we didn't we wouldn't be here being 100% honest about who we are, what we want, what we have done.

we think it is unethical and unresponsible to let a littly guppy sit down at a table with sharks. there is nothing in the industry to prevent this. sharks surely dont see that as unethical. they just see it as part of the game of poker - risk and reward, nobody is innocent not even the poory little guppy.

all we have done is make everyone aware (including sharks) that there is a new breed of animal in the food chain. one who is surely viewd as 'unethical' by sharks everywhere.

but, jedi, let me tell you this, there are more guppies reading these posts than there are sharks, and the guppies are not the least bit bothered by the idea of some payback.

it is true that many guppies will be bothered by sharing. and so they will choose not too.
some guppies will even be bothered with the idea of a bot. but by and large, most guppies will purchase a bot as a countermeasure against sharks.

i simply want to live at the top of the food chain. logically speaking, if you are somewhere in the middle or at the bottom then you view everyone above you as 'unethical'.

roaches hate birds,
birds hate cats,
cats hate dogs,
dogs hate southeast asians,

you are upset for the EXACT same reasons we were.
other people were not playing by the rules. i.e. :
1) they were using bots and/or
2) they were colluding.
and the opcs were powerless to stop them,
and we were powerless to stop them.

so jedi, we had several choices,
1) quit playing online poker. (nope we enjoy it too much).
2) maintain our honorable gazelle ethics and just try and run faster than the fastest lion or ...
3) we could defect ... and adopt a new set of ethics and become a lion.

my gazelle ethics lose much of their value when a lion is chewing on my leg and another has my throat.

ethics are always chosen by the individual.
if they are forced upon the individual then they are not ethics.

winholdem support.

[Baulucky]

Interesting concept. I guess you are, at least in mind, related to the President of my country Venezuela. He justifies killing dozens of people and torturing scores more just for the sake of avoiding elections that would take him off power and stop his cronies from stealing all the oil wealth from this, once, great nation.

The winners write history, correct?.

[WinHoldemSupport]

baulucky,

let me first offer my sympathies if you and yours have suffered because of your president.

however, your analogy is not parallel and unfair and here's why, in the game of venezuelan politics, you do not have the choice or power to become 'president' ... meaning you are not allowed to not be a gazelle; in fact you are prevented from doing so.

in online poker, there is nobody to prevent you from becoming anything you want to become. and so your analogy is not equivalent.

pokerbot.com is in the business of selling programmable pokerbots. and so we want to influence the industry in such a way so as to increase our sales.

one of the ways we can do this is by making every online player in the world aware that they and their online poker casino (opc) cannot guarantee that every player they meet will obey the following:
1) thou shalt not use bots.
2) thou shalt not collude.

all we are saying is "THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES!!!"

- we want to change peoples minds about bots and teaming on the internet.

- we want people to give up the illusion of the idea that they are safe and that "almost all players do play by the rules".

- we want to give everyone a chance to take the red pill.

- we want the entire online poker industry to change its mentality about bots and sharing.

- we want the game to become one where bots and teaming are accepted as part of the game.

these desires and open actions on our part are good for our business - which is selling pokerbots.

we are not asking for permission from anyone to do this. because we do not have to.

we are in the business of selling programmable pokerbots to the general poker playing community.

winholdem support.
http://www.pokerbot.com

[Baulucky]

I just said that it was an interesting concept of Ethics.