Bankroll

[tiger1]

I find it confusing that most pro's should have a 300 BB bankroll to play in a limit game in case of bad run. What happens when you have a 200-250 BB disaster? Then, essentially you have a 100 BB bankroll...not enough to keep playing in the same game to recover even if you are a winning player, or is it?

You should also have a sufficient amount to pay bills for 3-6 months. What happens when your car breaks down or unexpected bills come up? Then you may only have a one month cushion after a bad month or two.

Ok, so suppose you lost 200 BB, your car breaks down, the kids need braces, and the heater in your house breaks. All of a sudden you are broke. Now you are playing with a 100 BB bankroll with 1 month worth of bills covered. It is extremely difficult to get back to where you were before the loss and extra expenses.

How many people do you know that have $20K lying around to start their professional card playing career with a sufficient roll?

The obvious answer is to have a 500 BB bankroll, but the same question still exists. If you play poker to make your monthly "nut", and you lose a large portion of that bankroll then what? Eventually, I would think this happens to most pro's unless you win a large tournament or start out with a big win early.

Does anyone else see a problem with this?

[bernie]

your roll doesnt come out of the same fund as your bill money. it's seperate all unto itself. you're assuming that all your cash 'is' your roll. this is a highly dangerous way to play with your finances.

it's where your winnings go that answers the questions you asked.

let's say you have a 450BB roll. you earn 200BB in a month. do you keep it with your roll or do you add it to your normal, everyday money? this is how you build up your main account for the lean times so you dont have to dip into your roll for basic bills. but if you have excess winnings well above your bills and stuff, then you might add it to your roll so as to maybe take a shot at a higher limit.

a bankroll is like a bond you carry for jobs that require a license and bond.

the moment you tap into it for personal stuff, that's the moment, if you're playing for a living, that you look for a side job.

b

[Al Schoonmaker]

First, I agree with Bernie about keeping your bankroll separate from your living expenses, etc. Second and much more important, your post describes one reason that poker is not a worthwhile career. Unexpected expenses do occur, and most pros have hardly any cushion. Worse yet, almost none of them have medical insurance (unless their spouse works and gets benefits).
When something goes bad, they are broke and out of action.
I cannot count the number of "pros" who have played successfully for a while, but quit for something more secure.
Regards,
Al

[bernie]

there's always credit!!!

hahaha.

actually, being self employed as long as i was, other than 'flat-line' med insurance, my visa card was my medical plan if i couldnt cover it with what i had in a bank.

flat line insurance is the insurance you have that has to be near catastrophic before it kicks in. so anything major is covered, but minor stuff isnt.

one of the downsides to self employment that blew.

b

[angry young man]

I'll ask some of my friends who work(ed) in the computer industry with me about how nice it is to have a secure job. The feeling that I get from your post is that because of the fluctuations in poker it's not a worthwhile career. This really doesn't jive with your article about short term fluctuations (bad runs) not being important. If you make $25/hour then how is that any different from a regular job? I'll tell you how, because you're looking at it from the negative side and not considering the mistakes you made on the positive side. Say I have a sufficient bankroll to play a game (I like 600-1000 bets online but in a B&M I suppose 300-500 is probably okay) and I make $25/hour playing whatever game. Say poker is my sole source of income and I play 50 hours per week. I should take 1250 dollars out of my bankroll each week for the money earned that way. If I have a good week and win big, this doesn't mean it's time to spend big and take extra money out of the bankroll, this means I've added to the roll and have created padding for when I run poorly. This only works if you have an accurate idea as to how much you're winning per hour but given that you do it should work fine.

[Al Schoonmaker]

You're quite correct that some jobs are not as secure as they may appear. However, I know of very few jobs that are less secure than playing poker. If you're young and healthy, it's easy to minimize the importance of health insurance, but many pros have been ruined because they didn't have it.
In addition, many pros do not have enough discipline to resist the the temptation to spend more when they get lucky.
By chance, I got into a serious discussion of this very subject last night. The other person was a fairly successful pro. I sent him an article I'll send you if you write me at alannschoonmaker@hotmail.com. It's titled "Don't quit your day job."
There must be a reason that so many pros end up broke, including immortals like Johnny Moss and Stu Ungar. If immortals died broke, why would anyone think that they can do better?
Regards,
Al

[toots]

Because every american man knows in his heart of hearts that he's a great lover, an expert driver, a super poker player, and smarter than everyone else.

Fortunately, this provides a revenue source for the more humble.

[CrisBrown]

Hi tiger,

First, most Americans are terrible at handling money, no matter what job they have. We tend to have too much credit and too little savings. When you're self-employed, that is especially dangerous.

I'm a novelist by profession, and while my partner and I make a very good living, we don't get a regular paycheck. That can create short-term cash flow crunches from time to time, and that's why, when we do get a big paycheck, we put it in savings and continue to live within our budget.

Poker income is so variable that I would suggest anyone considering it as a career should begin with and maintain at least six months' living expenses in savings. That's not your bankroll. That's your nest egg. As your skill increases and your expected income (and your budget) grows, your nest egg has to grow with it. That's money kept aside for the times when your game turns sour, or you get sick, and you need to pay the bills in the meantime.

I'd suggest the same for everyone, in any walk of life. It is very difficult to keep six months' income in savings, and most of us can't do it consistently. But in an economy where "job security" is a myth, I think it's the best self-employment insurance you can have.

For a professional poker player, I think it's not just a good idea. I think it's essential.

Cris

[LuckyBellar]

I think there are two important issues in your post. The first is bankroll size. The real test is whether or not you are a proven consistant winner, and how much. If you are, bankroll size requirements tell you how much you can withdraw from your winnings for your living costs and other vices and still have enough to overcome a bad run. A break even player can never withdraw from their bankroll no matter how much they win in the short run. The bigger issue to me is what lifestyle can you afford reletive to the game you are playing. A small winner at 100-200 will have huge swings in bankroll and be in with others who live very well, but may only win enough for a small apartment and an old car. This is no way to live and creates a huge seperation between their lifestyle and their gambling style.

It is hard to be content with this situation which often leads to living higher that your long term winnings permit and certain financial ruin.

[TheArtist]

Poker can be more secure for some players because:

1) There is Online Poker. There are always soft lower limit games that players can grind themself back to normal BR.

2) Some players don't buy $500-1000 leather jackets, $1000 on drinks for their friends on one night, and blow it on other major liabilities/expenses with their poker Bankroll.

3) Blow it on Trophy girlfriends

4) Invest their winnings

5) They don't have huge Egos(Eg., "I am wining player at 10/20 so I go play 100/200 HU with Erik123 now")

6) They are not willing to risk it all on one game (like Mike Mcdermott(just kidding)). And they NEVER EVER willing to play a limit that is beyond their bankroll. I know a few players who play too high and loose too much too fast.

I know this is all common sense, but you did ask why we think we can do better than going broke.

TheArtist