Should I also purchase Brunson's Super System?

[Shaun]

I played no limit for quite a while before I ever read any book on the game. Most of the tips that aren't neccessarily intuitive I learned on this site. I have read Cloutier and McEvoy's book on pot and no limit, but did that well into my playing. I did the same with Hellmuth's book and Brunson's. I had already established a style by the time I read these books, and I'm actually happy about that,because it allowed me not to for any pre-conceived notions about what is proper and what is not. A system of any kind that never deviates is not a good thing for no limit hold-em.

Reading Super System was helpful in that it reinforced some ideas I had about the game, but some of the ideas I rejected- like the one about getting all my money in when I know I'm behind to instill fear in my opponents. I see the value of this in terms of image, but I'd rather never call
my chips off on a draw knowing I'm beat if I don't have much invested.

To me SS is the best book about No Limit Hold-em out of the three I've read. Cloutier's book advises play that I feel is too tight, and Hellmuth's does the same. Brunson's book advises taking control of your table with decpetion and agressiveness. He seems to advise that it is better to go broke being the agressor than it is to get chipped down playing too tight. I agree with this.

If you are going to read any books about poker, I would say that Super System is definitely one of a select few that should be in your library, just be sure to take from it what is right for you and your temperment, and discard ideas that you aren't really comfortable with.

[bunky9590]

My style and Doyle's are very similar, though I play a little bit tighter.

I am aggressive in the passive games, open raising med. suited connectors, and when they hit, nobody figures I have them. Also because I bet and raise SO MUCH, my legit hands get major paid off.

trick is with the supersystem approach, you need to know how to pick the battles, and when to release a hand.

Yes, I can shove my chips in with lightning speed, but rarely is it needed. Yes I bet my draws, steal flops, steal blinds, and generally get people at the table very frustrated, and the bets aren't small.

Consequently, when agaist the minimum bettors that let you draw cheap, I draw and try to break them if they have a stack.

Doyle's style is not for everyone, but my aggressive nature fits in with a lot of his concepts very well.

[RollaJ]

If you can do it right, there is no style better than Doyle's in my opinion. While I agree it works better in games with deep stacks relative to the BB, it also works well in games where people have enough money that they dont want to put it all in on the chance that they are ahead. So a Party 200 game can work, but the 25 and 50 game wont as people will call 25-50 with middle pair and gutshot draws. Essentially I think it works well when playing against tight players

[tewall]

I tried the download.com site, but couldn't find it listed there. So I think you'll just have to wait until the web site gets back up.

[BradleyT]

Do you have T.J. and Toms book "Championship No Limit Hold-em"? Highly recommended.

[OldLearner]

Thanks for the excellent replies.

I just ordered Super System as well (and although I have HPFAP and TPFAP) I also ordered TOP. (Please don't mention any other books now because I am very impressionable and will probably order them.)

I have played limit for about 25 years, 22 in home games and local cardrooms, very successful against a majority of lousy regulars, and 3 online with decent profits but much less than what I feel is achievable.

I have been playing $20/30 NL multis on PP (mostly the 6:00pm MT $30 one) to get some experience at the game (its cheap enough and I make the money often enough that I am about break-even in them).

I hate doing anything half-assed, so I won't sit in a NL cash game until I have done some reading and have a good understanding of what I am doing.

These forums and the posters here are awesome, but I cannot expect to learn everything from here without putting in the effort myself, nor is it fair to expect the people here to give a complete primer on these games to people who are too lazy to put in the time themselves. Plus I don't think you fully benefit from expert advice if you do not have a good grasp of the basic concepts to which the advice applies.

[RollaJ]

[ QUOTE ]
I hate doing anything half-assed, so I won't sit in a NL cash game until I have done some reading and have a good understanding of what I am doing.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'd venture to say that most of your learning can be done at Party NL tables, (starting at 25NL and moving up) and youll still make money at it while you learn what works

[JeanieJ]

I had already established a style by the time I read these books, and I'm actually happy about that,because it allowed me not to for any pre-conceived notions about what is proper and what is not. A system of any kind that never deviates is not a good thing for no limit hold-em

I found this book helped me for the same reasons. I had already established a way of playing and was able to take others advice and add it to my style. Playing one person's way doesn't always work for another person. It helps to already have a style to build and grow from

[OldLearner]

Ok Rollaj, so my NL & PL book arrives later today (Super System should be here tomorrow).

So I took your advice and sat down at the Party NL 25 tables, first 1, then 2 cause its a bit slow (I'm used to 6 max).

After about an hour, I'm up about $2 or $3 at each table (I'm killin em). So I have about $27/$28 at each table.

I don't have hand histories so I'll just describe a couple of hands. One thing of note is that most people have less than $25, perhaps 1 or 2 have 50-75, at both tables. Most of the hands are won without a showdown at these 2 tables, and there is a lot of pre-flop limping, not much raising, usually minraises if any.

Hand 1:

I'm dealt QQ on the button.
UTG+1 bets, $2, 4 limpers to me. Pot is 9.25.
I push all-in.
This is my default play when I'm not sure what to do and I have a strong hand. Probably should have made a pot-size bet (1/3 of my stack) to limit the field, then see how the hand played out post-flop?
One guy in MP playing his 2nd hand at the table calls (bought in for $25).
Flop comes K66, he as AKo and I rebuy.

Hand 2:

OK, about 30 secs later I am dealt K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] on the button at the other table.

4 limpers and I raise to $2. Blinds fold, 4 to the flop. Pot is 9.50

Flop comes 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Checked to CO-1 (he's got about $65) who bets $8
I smooth call and everyone else folds. My intention was to raise on the turn.
Turn 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
CO-1 now bets $15 (I have $16 left) so I call all-in.
He has 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

The 2nd hand was a bit frustrating so I quit and went played some 1-2 6max and made back what I lost.

I didn't provide too much detail here because I'm not really looking for much analysis at this point. I'm anxious to do some reading once my books arrive then I'll jump back in.

I don't intend on posting too many hands until I have a better grasp of the concepts and can better appreciate the advice given.

As always though, any comments/critcisms are appreciated.

[bunky9590]

You just learned a valuable lesson about getting all in with QQ preflop. Make a nice size raise, but all in is usually not worth it. Against AK its a coin flip. If he calls the raise and No overcard falls, then you can push.

The hand w/96 you cant do much about. I'm paying that one off as well.