Are 2+2 NL Players weak-tight?

[turnipmonster]

I don't bluff much when playing online, because as you probably know in the smaller NL games you are a huge favorite to get called. so why not value bet?

in my opinion it just goes back to the stack size issue. it is very hard to run a successful bluff with a short stack, because people are not risking a lot of money by calling you down. in a situation where you are a deep stack against another deep stack, I think bluffs are profitable and correct. problem is, confrontations between two big stack in the PP games are few and far between.

the same is true in live big bet games. when you are playing a big pot with a short stack, chances are you are going to be pot stuck by the turn. this makes it very hard to run a bluff on the river that isn't going to get called.

--turnipmonster

[Nukid]

I think one of the reasons you don't see "was this a good bluff" type situation, is that that depends entirely on your read of your opponents. I don't play online, but I doubt that I can read your opponent through your description of them better than you can read them through actually playing. If I was there, maybe I'd have a read, but instead I only have your description to go on. Knowing when the right time to make a move requires that you have at least a passing familiarity with the play up to that point, and I'm not able to get that from people's descriptions, nor am I able to provide that. This is one of the reasons I don't bother asking questions about bluffs too much, what feedback am I going to get that I didn't already know?

[gavrilo]

[ QUOTE ]
I am not sure if I am qualified to make this post, being that I have done little to comment in this forum, or any forum as of late, however, it is in my opinion that the majority of the players posting here are Weak-Tight.
There are a couple of main reasons why I believe this to be so.
1. There is a lack of bluffing on here. Tight Aggressive does not mean you cant run pure bluffs. You must learn to play the player, and not the cards. If you read your opponent for a pair of jacks, and your read is he'll fold for a pot-sized reraise, make it, it doesnt matter if you are holding 22.
I have over 100,000 hands at the Party NL tables, and I must say that of the players with the best hourly/rates, they are all seeing more than 20% of the pots, and are not so-called rocks.

2. There is way too much folding when being played back at. I will not fold AK on a king high or ace high flop at Party EVER, from now until I die. It is that simple, especially not to an unknown player. Half the players on party will pushin on top pair, a flush draw or any other semi decent hand, if you are betting half the pot and then folding when raised all-in you are never gonna get furthor than 5BB/Hr.

3. Way too much multi-tabling, which is probally what is preventing you from taking the next step. The lack of hand reading skills. Reading the board is crucial in No-Limit Holdem, and if you are jumping around 3 screens at a time how do you expect to improve?



[/ QUOTE ]

I think this post is pointless.
There isn't a set way to play.. everyone has different playing styles and many different styles work.
Besides that, most people play lower limit online which very rarely is profitable for huge bluffs because opponents call too much.

I love the part about the 22 play especially. Yes, I see the point and this would be much more valid in live play at higher stakes. You can read people online, but to an extent only. Reraising your stack with 22 when you think someone has JJ and will fold to an all-in is risky online. Keep doing this at my table and eventually I'll catch you.

So to answer your question and I'll answer for myself only. I do think I play extremely tight, but it works online with so many loose players that will call even if I haven't raised a pot in like an hour.

[AeonBlues]

I consider my game tight agressive. I will run an ocasional bluff, but I have to be reading that my bluff has a decent expetation. I make good reads on my opponets, because there is a lot of information in betting patterns, and I am extremely intuitive, way more offten right then wrong when I decide on a read. Maybe you don't think I'm running bluffs because you don't see me show?

The other posters are right, tight agressive play on Party is what pays out in the long run. If you think I'm weak tight, maybe I'm on a run of cold cards. For instance, yesterday I was in that situation when I flopped KQ top 2 pair betting the pot for $8, and a flush / gut shot draw made it $40 to go. I stopped and thought about the possibilies, and realized that because I had been getting dealt a lot of ragy hands, and folding a lot, that my opponet wouldn't raise that big with trip 5s, so I figured he was in the flow with my weak tight table image. I moved all in for $111, and won on show. Showing a big proffit over any marginal hands that I got pushed off of earlier.

Also, there are times when I play marginal hands for a big profit. Like last weekend, I limped in MP with 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and called a min raise from a mainiac player with K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Flop was 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], I came out betting the pot for $10 knowing that my hand was the best, as he would have raised much larger with any pocket pair. He raised it to $20, and I called figuring that he had a flush draw and atleast 1 over card. Turn was 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] I came out betting $50 and he just called, which told me 100% he was on a draw, as he would have moved all in with any pair even if he had A3 in his hand. The river was a third 5. I thought about checking, but I decided I was more likely to get action with an all in. I bet out $90, and he called with his K high, and my weak full house won me a total of $160. Was that weak tight play?

AeonBlues

[Al_Capone_Junior]

I posted a total bluff hand about two weeks ago. I think on the NL forum. Some 2+2ers do bluff now and then.

al

[Al_Capone_Junior]

I for one play no limit ring games more loosely than any other game I play. I don't put much credence in stats tho, so I shant quote them for you.

You can play more hands in NL because of the additional opportunity to outplay your opponents, and the higher implied odds.

al

[J.A.Sucker]

While I'm not nearly as experienced in big bet as I am in limit, I can tell you that aggression is all about stack size and how you are perceived to use that stack. Online, which I assume you are talking about, it's fairly difficult to accumulate a big enough stack not to worry about putting it all in with a decent hand. In this case, I agree with you. There are way too many people on this board afraid to go all in with a smallish stack on the flop without the mortal nuts. People have discussed tossing a set on the flop, etc. Of course, online NL/PL is a joke, and really plays more like limit, since there are max buyins.

When money gets deep, "weak-tight" will get the money, especially if you aren't really as weak-tight as people perceive you. There are players I know who use this to perfection, just as there are so-called crazymen who aren't as crazy as it seems. However, to play a big stack well, you need to let people know that you are willing to leverage it at any time, though there are several ways to do this.

[tpir90036]

1) a majority of the hand posts in this thread are from people playing against bad opponents. there is no use trying to run a fancy bluff play against bad opponents since they are going to call a pot-sized raise with only a backdoor flush draw anyway.

2) hands are usually posted so other people can critique the way someone played it or point out a flaw in the way they might approach NL. bluffing is so situational that posting bluff hands is sort of pointless. here is one from tonight anyway:

Party NL25.
I am on the button with 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. the table is very loose pre-flop and plays like a bunch of scared girls post-flop. 5 limpers to me and i raise to $4. i on't normally play 3's like this but when i am on the button and bored from not getting anything playable i will sometimes try to vaccum up all of the deadm oney at once. only two limpers call. the flop comes ace high and they both check to me. i bet the pot and they both fold. see? that was boring.