Tunica 20/40...Trying to put a move on "The Phantom" Bob Morgan

[Bob S.]

So, I spent the entire WPO in Tunica and must say it was great...any of you looking for good action should go there in January. Before I go on...I got to meet and play with both Jim Brier and Bob Morgan while I was there...quite a bit actually, both times not knowing who they were until we started talking. One night the guy on my right has a friend come over to the table talking situations and I couldn't help but to jump right in the conversation and somewhat disagree with their thoughts. Needless to say when I asked this gentleman "So where you from" and he replies "Las Vegas, Jim Brier, and you" which is when my jaw dropped and I, somewhat embarassed, introduced myself. The next night this cowboy gambler at my table is just KILLING me at the 20/40 and then I see Jim stop over to talk to him. When a seat on his left opens I immediately take it because I can't stand being out of position on him. We get to talking and I find out it's Bob Morgan himself. I was in awe needless to say. So it was definately cool to meet these two along with their friend Lucian Anderson. I got to talk a lot of poker with all 3, Bob and I spent a whole session next to eachother 2 days later as well. He passed down a few pearls of wisdom which I will gladly remember. I hope Jim Brier hasn't already posted this hand because he did observe it and talked to both Bob Morgan and myself seperately after it occurred but I haven't been on 2+2 for some time. So on to the hand.

I have KhQh in Mp, Ep open limps, Bob on my right raises, I cold call, bb calls as does EP. 4 to the flop of ThTs2h. Checked to Bob and he bets, I just call and the other 2 drop. Turn comes a black rag, Bob bets, I raise. Now he gets hesitant, makes a comment about having aces in the hole and after some thinking calls. River comes another small black card with no flushes on board. He checks, I bluff and get called. Bob turns over AcKs. Anyone think I got too carried away with this hand? He had exactly what I put him on...I think against a poorer player I win this pot. Unfortunately Bob just has such a great feel for the game and nailed me to the wall here. Anyways this was my highlight hand of the trip...many of you here know Bob Morgan and I thought I would post this. I will post some other hands when I have more time. Should Jim Brier or Bob Morgan be lurking around and reading this I had a great time playing against you both...just not sure why I stayed in the games with either of you and Lucian (all three of you are too good!!!).

Bob S.

[eugeneel]

I make this play a lot online. When I do, I only make it against tight players that respect the way I play. This increases the chance of he play working.

[elysium]

hi bob
there are times you can make this pre-flop call, but this is not one of them. additonally, if you're going to come in, from that position, you should be doing so with a raise. obviously, you don't have cards strong enough to reraise with, but for that reason you should not be cold-calling with them. there are only a handful of hands that you can cold-call with in this spot. AQs, AJs and perhaps ATs against average opponents. against soild opponents, you can fold the AJs without too much agony, but that would be about the minimum.

you might say that KQs is rated by the experts as being on par in value with AQs and AJs. what you must consider, however, is that the actual strength of your starters varies depending on position and conditions. for example; if you are in the CO or button facing 4 or 5 cold-callers, AJs rises in value and AKo and AQo falls in value, especially if the field turns more passive in the later rounds. conversely, first in from MP or from the CO, AQo rises sharply, especially if the blinds are over defending. there are few if any expert players who would prefer AJs over AQo in this situation. and in the earlier example facing 4 or 5 cold-callers, most of the expert players would prefer AJs over AKo in late position.

so hand values are not constant. in the hand you're posting, because you are against an opponent who knows how to manipulate the betting action so that you will not likely receive many free-cards, and who is clearly isolating an EP limper with a dominating hand, when you fail to raise he will put you on a big draw. you will also allow Axs in behind you by failing to raise. well, you can't afford that because now, if the raiser has TT or 88, any A will beat you.

KQs is more on par with JTs in this situation. where does KQs excell? KQs is great for stealing the blinds or getting into a short-handed situation from MP, or reraising a MP raiser who is looking to cut down the field. KQs can be raised in from UTG under the right conditions, but what it can't do is call an UTG raise unless the raiser is a maniac. even if the raiser is aggressive but not maniacal, you should fold to the aggressive's raise unless your in LP and the left will allow you to get heads up. but against this opponent.....whew.
against this opponent you're down to pairs 88 and higher, and AKo, and of course you would reraise. the only hand you can call with is AQs. i can't see calling with AJs and KQs is so desparately out of its environment and so badly dominated that it's a clear fold.

[Gabe]

[ QUOTE ]
I make this play a lot online. When I do, I only make it against tight players that respect the way I play. This increases the chance of he play working.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Bob S. raising play or the Bob M. calling play?

[DcifrThs]

one quick comment about the KhQh hand. While this is definately a standard in the muck hand given the players in and the action i'll assume you called and take it from there. it's checked to bob on ttx two heart board. he bets with what you think is group 1/2 hand. while you are on a draw, he can't be certain you're on a draw as you are certain that if you had a ten he would be beaten. therefore on the flop instead of calling(given the preflop call which i wouldn't do) you should raise and represent the ten. he MAY c-f on the turn unless he thinks thats exactly what you'd do with you're heart draw and reraise on the flop. you then have the option of capping and preventing him from betting the turn or calling hoping to hit the heart. Even so, you save 1 small bet by playing in this manner because youre raise on the turn already cost you one small bet but now its 4 more small bets with the raise representing slowplayed trips semibluff.

i prefer this semibluff on the flop because its cheaper and more effective.

comments? questions?
-Barron

[nykenny]

agree. fold before the flop should be correct against this solid player's non-stealing raise, most of the time. cold calling is only correct if you "sense" that 2 or 3 people will come in behind you.

Kenny

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
I make this play a lot online. When I do, I only make it against tight players that respect the way I play. This increases the chance of he play working.

[/ QUOTE ]

if he respects you, he will put you on JT, QT, or KT (because you called 2 bets cold btf solidly)? or a pocket pair (with which he knows you would have raised on the flop to protect your hand)? or AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT (confidently slow-playing)?

you will need a loose passive image for this to work, IMO.

Kenny

[Indian Ocean]

KQs cold call is not good.

I think you failed the AQo test.

[shemp]

I didn't read the other responses.

I wouldn't coldcall pre-flop, but I suspect you are fine in so doing, and after that you are fine to take a shot at the turn, and the follow up on the river is somehow pointless and mandatory, although calling the turn and raising the river if he bets is good, too. I don't bluff raise the river enough, and this is a good spot. People will rarely fold a wired pair here, but this is where they might; the thing is, they will often continue to bet a big A-high on the theory that they were going to check-call anyway. If I called the turn and he does check the river, I'd consider myself screwed and check behind, if that makes any sense at all, suspecting that he is waiting to snap off a bluff with A-high, and would keep betting K-high or something goofy.

The basic problem is that you are screwed. There presumably aren't a lot of Ts you could have, and if you did, you might very well raise the flop on a draw rich board with 2 other opponents. AK, JJ-AA are also unlikely, and he hopes by telling you he has aces would induce you to check behind a pocket pair, which you'd have raised the flop with anyway, so if he is correct in his attempt at manipulation, suddenly, the hands that bet the river are extremely small and he beats enough of them, and when he loses, it is not obvious that he was lying because he's usually looking at trips.

It is kind of amusing that you "put him on AK" for many reasons, and unsurprising that he put you on putting him on AK.

I'm taking a break from posting after this. I'll be back in a month or so when I'm convinced I won't act like a 10-year old who needs a timeout. Good luck.

[DanZ]

well, given the early limper and then a raise, calling is fine if you can expect a multiway pot, but not otherwise. The reason is Bob is still in very early position, but he can no longer expect a shot at the blinds. On average, he will be playing tighter than normal wrt to raising here, making your KQs treacherous if you don'tr expect a large field. there's also a chance the early limper (or someone behind you) has a premium hand.

As far as the rest of the hand, Bob has to call you down here given his likely read. If he has observed you as a tight player, he knows you don't have tens unless it's quads, and that you might have 3 bet pocket tens preflop (though I would have folded them most of the time). He can also rule out the tiny fh.

Could you have a pair like nines or jacks? maybe, but why would you not raise the flop then to get heads up? Also, he knows that your cold call screams "group 2 suited hand - AJs/AQs/KQs. This read is helped by him having an A and K of the wrong suit - which also reduces the chances you are slowplaying AA or KK.

In short, Bob reads to well for this play to work. I think you have a better chance with a flop raise. An added bonus of the flop raise is that you can chicken out and take a free card on the turn if you sense your play will fail or if something hideous like an ace falls on the turn and Bob checks anyway.

Dan Z.