Curious about pro players?

[Ulysses]

I asked GOT to post his numbers to point out a couple of things: how big a part luck plays in this game even for skilled players and how insignificant short-term results really are - and the long term can take a long time to come around. I think many posters here vastly underestimate these factors.

Before I continue, I'll say that based on playing w/ him some and reading many posts of his, I believe GOT's expectation playing 3 tables of 15-30 is somewhere between $60-120/hr.

OK, now let's take a look at his numbers:

GOT's actual results:

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
hrs tot hrs tot $ $/hr tot $/hr
30 11056 30 11056 $369 $369
60 4508 90 15564 $75 $173
20 -2854 110 12710 -$143 $116
10 1460 120 14170 $146 $118
10 -3437 130 10733 -$344 $83
6 4387 136 15120 $731 $111
</pre><hr />

He had an insanely hot first 30 hours, then followed it up w/ about 100 hours averaging about $40/hr for an average of over $100/hr. Not bad.

Now, what if he had started a couple days later and didn't have that hot 30 hours full of insane HU action

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
hrs tot hrs tot $ $/hr tot $/hr
60 4508 60 4508 $75 $75
20 -2854 80 1654 -$143 $21
10 1460 90 3114 $146 $35
10 -3437 100 -323 -$344 -$3
6 4387 106 4064 $731 $38
</pre><hr />

If it weren't for that initial run, he would have actually been a losing player after 100 hrs and only a super-hot 6-hour session at the end would get him to winning territory.

But what if he missed a different 30 hours?

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
hrs tot hrs tot $ $/hr tot $/hr
30 11056 30 11056 $369 $369
60 4508 90 15564 $75 $173
10 1460 100 17024 $146 $170
6 4387 106 21411 $731 $202
</pre><hr />

You'll notice that by removing a different 30-hour chunk (his two bad runs), he goes from winning $4000 to winning over $20000. And the big difference there? Playing 30 hours in the first few days of January instead of playing 30 hours in the first few days of February.

What's my point?

My point is simply that over the course of 130+ online hours, probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 25,000 hands for GOT, there isn't all that much separating a $4000 $40/hr winner from a $20,000+ $200/hr winner. For those of you considering trying this for a living, I think that's a very important point that you can't overestimate and you could easily be in for a big disappointment or shock if you use your initial results as a benchmark for what to expect over time. In my case, I had a nice run online where I won over $25k before having a significant downstreak. But since that point, I've had a couple of downswings of over $5k. Those downswings could just as easily have come much earlier. And if I were doing this for a living, they might have been devastating. Again, something to think about for those of you considering this as a career.

[Homer]

I have no doubt that a number of posters on 2+2, albeit a very small percentage, have the ability to make $100k in a year playing poker online.

I agree. I never said that no one could do it, just that most here cannot do it.

I really don't think it's as far-fetched of a prospect as you guys as making it out to be. In fact, I know it's not.

For you, probably not, but for most it is.

-- Homer

[Redhot_man]

[ QUOTE ]
I asked GOT to post his numbers to point out a couple of things: how big a part luck plays in this game even for skilled players and how insignificant short-term results really are - and the long term can take a long time to come around. I think many posters here vastly underestimate these factors.

Before I continue, I'll say that based on playing w/ him some and reading many posts of his, I believe GOT's expectation playing 3 tables of 15-30 is somewhere between $60-120/hr.

OK, now let's take a look at his numbers:

GOT's actual results:

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
hrs tot hrs tot $ $/hr tot $/hr
30 11056 30 11056 $369 $369
60 4508 90 15564 $75 $173
20 -2854 110 12710 -$143 $116
10 1460 120 14170 $146 $118
10 -3437 130 10733 -$344 $83
6 4387 136 15120 $731 $111
</pre><hr />

He had an insanely hot first 30 hours, then followed it up w/ about 100 hours averaging about $40/hr for an average of over $100/hr. Not bad.

Now, what if he had started a couple days later and didn't have that hot 30 hours full of insane HU action

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
hrs tot hrs tot $ $/hr tot $/hr
60 4508 60 4508 $75 $75
20 -2854 80 1654 -$143 $21
10 1460 90 3114 $146 $35
10 -3437 100 -323 -$344 -$3
6 4387 106 4064 $731 $38
</pre><hr />

If it weren't for that initial run, he would have actually been a losing player after 100 hrs and only a super-hot 6-hour session at the end would get him to winning territory.

But what if he missed a different 30 hours?

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
hrs tot hrs tot $ $/hr tot $/hr
30 11056 30 11056 $369 $369
60 4508 90 15564 $75 $173
10 1460 100 17024 $146 $170
6 4387 106 21411 $731 $202
</pre><hr />

You'll notice that by removing a different 30-hour chunk (his two bad runs), he goes from winning $4000 to winning over $20000. And the big difference there? Playing 30 hours in the first few days of January instead of playing 30 hours in the first few days of February.

What's my point?

My point is simply that over the course of 130+ online hours, probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 25,000 hands for GOT, there isn't all that much separating a $4000 $40/hr winner from a $20,000+ $200/hr winner. For those of you considering trying this for a living, I think that's a very important point that you can't overestimate and you could easily be in for a big disappointment or shock if you use your initial results as a benchmark for what to expect over time. In my case, I had a nice run online where I won over $25k before having a significant downstreak. But since that point, I've had a couple of downswings of over $5k. Those downswings could just as easily have come much earlier. And if I were doing this for a living, they might have been devastating. Again, something to think about for those of you considering this as a career.

[/ QUOTE ]
Very nice post. Yes, I think there are alot more factors in becoming a "pro", tehn there are in saying I will make "X dollars/hour"...I have the luxury of living at home, and only have to pay 1/4 of my parents bils and then my car payment/insurance. This affords me the opportunity to be a pro and not have to worry about a bad streak of cards. I dont have to worry about next monthes rent, or getting evicted.

BTW. I play stricly NL, and find it interesting that I have winning days 80% of the time. In my opinion there is alot less rick, or variance in playing NL as opposed to limit.
It is amazing to think at the end of this year I will have
100K in my bank account, well 67 after Uncle Sam rapes my white ass.

One of my conerns though, Im 18 yeras old, have never had a job in my life until now. If poker dies dopwn, how am i gonna make myself work another job for such little pay in comparison. I can just picture myself driving up to the sears parking lot in my 25K camero. "Okay, did you just say i get $9/hr??"

[J.R.]

If poker dies dopwn, how am i gonna make myself work another job for such little pay in comparison.

IMO, an good education will help ensure your employment opportunities are lucrative and wide ranging.

[ML4L]

[symphonic]

Great post Ulysses. As for myself, I have no intentions of ever becoming an online pro, I would just like to be able to use poker to make alittle extra income. I'm currently in the process of becoming a recording engineer and love it more than I could ever love Poker, heh.

[Spyder]

Not to mention that, with Poker on the upswing, in your current financial position, at 100k per year, if you don't have a sizeable nestegg set aside in an investment account by the time you're 25, you're mis-managing your profits. If you're smart enough to play Hold'em well, then, you should be smart enough to know that you have to play several hands ahead...that's true in life too [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Spyder

[Paluka]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with both of you.

I also have my doubts about people claiming to make $100,000 a year playing on the internet.



[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not saying it is easy for everyone, but there are a ton of people making 100k a year playing online poker.

[CrackerZack]

Of course its easy. No one loses in the 100/200 pokerstars games or the big games at pokertropolis. I mean, if they lost, why would they play that high?

I can count on my fingers, the number of players that post on this site, that I would not bet against in making 100K in a year from poker.

[Mike Gallo]

but there are a ton of people making 100k a year playing online poker.

I seriously doubt 2000 people make 100k a year playing online poker.