Sucked out in low limit pots

[gunbuster]

I know what it feels like when you start good, flop even better, but then get sucked out on.

Here's the way I think of it: I can either have a table of people who "play" properly and only get 1 caller to the river, but have a 70% chance of winning, or take a table w/ 5 callers with say a 35% chance of winning.

When you figure all the money that's gone into the middle, you'll find that your 35% of a 5-person pot is going to outstrip the other pots. You will see greater swings, as you'll be a dog collectively against the rest of the table, but your equity will be higher.

I'm not accurate here with the math, but you get the idea.

[Bob T.]

I'm just trying to see if someone can acknowledge the *possible* fact that several players playing badly is not necessarily a fantastic situation.


Several players playing terribly, will escalate your variance, so if you are on a limited bankroll, it could increase you risk of ruin. But the fact that each one is making significant mistakes, and the money has to end up somewhere means that in these games, if you play well, you will eventually end up with a lot of chips, assuming the variance doesn't get you in the meantime.

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
Obviously I want 64o to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then why the hell were you complaining about it?

[ QUOTE ]
I'm just trying to see if someone can acknowledge the *possible* fact that several players playing badly is not necessarily a fantastic situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Noone here is stupid enough to do that.

[ QUOTE ]
I still haven't seen anyone make a convincing argument. Yeah, I can quote something from Theory of Poker too. But, as I said before, give me some proof you have a positive expectation when SEVERAL players loose players are in a pot with you.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK. You open raise w/K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and get 4 cold callers. All of them have draws to the turn on a board of
T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

cards -------- win --- %win --- lose - %lose --tie -%tie - EV
K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 192599 38.37 308322 61.43 1021 0.20 0.384
6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 87658 17.46 413263 82.33 1021 0.20 0.175
T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 89552 17.84 405895 80.86 6495 1.29 0.184
Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 75022 14.95 425899 84.85 1021 0.20 0.150
J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 50616 10.08 444831 88.62 6495 1.29 0.107

Here's the link to this analysis: Loose Players are beautiful. (click here)

Shall I go on? I don't have all day. Fiddle around www.twodimes.net and you'll figure it out.

[ QUOTE ]
It's worth discussing, don't you think?

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

I'm ruthless today, sorry. Hope you stick around (seriously). I think I'm fed up with all these posts about too many fish. You all should be dancing in the streets.

Ok, my medication has kicked in, I'm feeling better. Check this post out, but first let me say that the KK hand in the post is an ACTUAL hand. Yes, the post is scarcastic (sp?) but the game is real and the hands are true. Funny thing about the KK hand is that there was a discussion about AA between 3 or 4 players and how they hate having callers when they get it. All I said was, "AA is a multiway monster." and everyone told me to get lost basically, check it out: Joe Tall's Loose Game Rant After I dragged the KK pot, I said, "KK is a multiway monster, too." and grinned as it took me 3 hands to stack chips. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Peace,
Joe Tall

[Tosh]

When the chasers stop playing poker so will I.

[deacsoft]

My reasoning for posting this was, as you said to complain about the fish (to only blow off some steam), to see if anyone had a system to over come a large number of callers and players on a draw with lower stakes limit. Since it is cheap to see the turn and with that number of callers the pot odds usually make it hard not to call a bet or raise. I'm looking for advice such as check raising more often, or check call, be less aggresive or more and how. We all love the fish but is it possible to win consistantly with 3 or more calling you down every hand? As I said I know the odds are with me, but as we all know being the dog doesn't always lose you the pot in the end.