Online vs B&M?

[ericd]

I keep on reading that online is tougher than B&M. I don't understand why. Would you please help me?

[Paul Talbot]

Well unlike a casino environment, no one can stroll past an on-line room drunk and think, "Hey! Poker! I'll sit down and play for awhile while my wife plays slots."

Regards,

Paul

[AliasMrJones]

Well, people are just posting their experience. I concur that my experience is that B&M games are generally softer than online at the same limit. I've found about a 2-1 ratio to be about right in most cases. So 2/4 online is roughly comparable to 3/6-5/10 B&M. My B&M experience is limited, though, and you can certainly find soft games at other higher limits at times.

Part of it is that Casinos generally have higher limits. So, for instance, I was in a Casino where the lowest limit was 5/10. It played like $.50/1 online.

Also, for some people the casino might be an hour or more away. (Or, might be a plane ride away!) So, when people get to the casino, they don't want to sit around and wait for a hand, they want to get in there and play! Hence, typically looser play.

Also, as someone else pointed out, some view it as just another casino game like BJ or roulette and might try it out as they just saw the WPT on TV. With online it is more of a hassle to get money into a site than at a casino where, if you're there already playing other games, you can plunk down some cash and sit in.

[SoBeDude]

Paul's got it.

Think of it this way.

a 15-30 game at your local casino will be populated by the locals in your area that want to play that limit. Some will be good, some will be bad.

But online, since the game can draw from anywhere in the world, there is a much better chance of running in to very good players.

Also, many people enjoy the social aspect of playing live poker. This is certainly true for many of the retired folks who like to play live. These people just don't get the enjoyment out of playing online. So that leaves online for those of us who really love the game. And those who love it are more likely to want to play well. They'll put in the effort to study and improve their game.

-Scott

[David Steele]

Some more reasons:

At B&M lower limits, it is hard to make much profit because of the rake, so all the decent players move up to at least 6-12 or higher.

Online, the rake is not as bad, you can play multiple tables. Some people that are afraid of real casinos or don't have many games nearby, can learn a little and get online and are not that terrible.

The difference is not much at say 15-30, some newby crazies can get in online, and the B&M games are likely to have a few pros.

[The Dude]

I've played quite a bit a both, and B&M has WAY softer limit structure games that online, and it's by more than 2 to 1. The 1-2 game on Party Poker plays at the same level as the 4-8 at Commerce.

NL is a totally different monster. The NL games live are filled with plenty of people who know what they're doing, and very few people who are clueless. Online NL still has many players who know how to play, but countless fish to tip the scale. If you are wanting to learn NL, you must start online (the stakes are also higher live).

[Zele]

I think of it using the following abuse of the efficient market hypothesis:

An online game plays 1.5-2.5 times faster than a B&M game. Hence a winning player can win at 1.5-2.5 times faster a rate. Assume a pro wins 1BB/hr at B&M $40/$80. If there is an online game that plays twice as fast at stakes higher than $20/$40 that he can beat at the same rate, why wouldn't he play online? So eventually there will be an equilibrium.

Additional factors making the online games tougher are:

1) Lower overall variance. The $40/$80 pro puts up with only about 0.7 times the hourly variance at the double-speed $20/$40 game. Hence the online game is actually more attractive than the B&M game with the same win rate for a risk-averse player.

2) Convenience.

[MicroBob]

agree with all reasons posted already...

does the aspect that not everyone owns a computer play a role??
typically, when i play B&M, anybody who i converse with about online poker tends to be one of the stronger players.
the super-fish at B&M's are more likely never to have played online or possibly even HEARD of playing online.

there's a chicken-and-egg thing going on here....
because the online game trains you faster. when you are a bad player you are more likely to lose much faster and learn to get at least a little bit tighter...at least this happens for some players.

obviously since the online game moves faster you don't have to wait as long before taking down the occasional pot....consequently, you'r enot as tempter to 'play this hand because it's the best thing i've gotten in awhile'.


the b&m, game requires significantly more patience that many players simply do not have.

and then there's that whole weekend party, alcohol, drinking-buddies, i want to show off my WPT bluffing skills type of effect.

i'm no shrink nor did i do very well in the related classes....but let me try a little pop-psych on the matter.
i've been at B&M tables where everyone's caught up in the fun and drinking and capping every round and showing down their 62o so they can get a good laugh out of it. it's a wave of fun and excitement that they create because otherwise the game gets too freaking boring for them.
this doesn't happen quite as much online because everyone's not drinking together or trying to win peer-approval as much.

lose in a casino - "i got drunk and had a good time with some good guys. it was worth it"
lose online - "i stayed home all night on my computer and lost a bunch of dough"

casino scenario - will repeat based on good-time factor.
online scenario - will learn from experience and will either not play again or will play smarter next time around.

just some general thoughts that are pretty much different spins on the previously discussed ideas.

[Paul Talbot]

Another reason I just thought of. It is pretty easy to get reads on players fairly quickly in B&M where you see their demeanor, whether or not they are paying attention, etc. You don't have any visual cues on-line so you have to rely soley on the action to get a feel for people.

Regards,

Paul

[bigpooch]

I'll add one more reason (there are so many that others can
add!): online, you often can clearly see there is $xxx in
front of you. In a bricks and mortar game, you have chips
because you aren't allowed to play with legal tender!