Serious question about ESP (I don't mean psychic or anything silly)

[naphand]

I somehow doubt that anyone *waits* to hear your responses, Daryn. A bit like the *beagle* on Mars, they think it's there, but no-one is getting any useful information out of it.

[daryn]

i pity you naphand, take your bad teeth and leave 2+2 for good.

[naphand]

I suspect you pity a lot of people Daryn, presumably because you believe they are below your intellectual abilities. But your sadly-lacking posts on the Forum, which appear to consists of one-line dismissals of others, are the least likely to to be missed on this forum: they contain no discussion or reasoning and appear to be knee-jerk responses to alternate opinions. I suspect you will be voting for "Dubya", as he seems to prefer very simple statements, with little or no reasoning behind them.

Toothless, but capable of stringing together more than a few words. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[daryn]

i love to reason,.. i'm still not quite sure what you're talking about. i like one-liners and zingers on an internet forum.. it lightens the mood i guess. i have many posts where i talk poker strategy, maybe you've missed them? i also sometimes get involved in physics related discussions in the off topic forum, as that is one of my interests.

i just find it funny that you think you can glean from a few of my posts my entire personality

[naphand]

Nobody said anything about *entire personality*. Arrogance is not hard to spot. Personally, I find humour, self-deprecation, and wit to *lighten the mood*, rather than 1-line put-downs, but there you go....

Physics eh? Well there is plenty of that in this thread, but the only contribution you have made appears to have been...

"if you really believed in ESP then you wouldn't ALWAYS wait.. you would only wait when you got "the signal"

Which is not only a rather feeble put-down, it is also nonsense: believing in ESP is not the same as having ESP... [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

I have made one or two posts in this thread with a little physics mixed in. If you genuinely have an interest in physics then your comments, would in fact, be very welcome, as a different viewpoint may help to clarify what are somewhat abstract concepts. My knowledge on the matter is certainly incomplete, as will be my interpretation of it.

[Lazymeatball]

[ QUOTE ]
"if you really believed in ESP then you wouldn't ALWAYS wait.. you would only wait when you got "the signal"

Which is not only a rather feeble put-down, it is also nonsense: believing in ESP is not the same as having ESP...


[/ QUOTE ]

Festus claimed to have experienced an ESP moment in his post, he may not be totally sure or willing to testify to congress about it, but that's what his post said. That at that instance, he had ESP and it saved his life.

Daryn then pointed out a blaring inconsistency in his belief that he should always wait at an intersection, whereas someone who actually had ESP, would know when to wait and when not too. I beleive he kept it blunt for both clarity and the well documented 'zinger' effect.

As for Daryn making fun of your teeth he should know better. It's not your fault you have an abysmal social healthcare system.

[naphand]

Actually, my impression was that Festus was not sure if it was ESP or not. There are plenty of alternative explanations, one of which he suggested himself (the car may have been travelling faster than normal). As for testifying before congress, I'm not sure I (or Bill Clinton) believes this amounts to much.... [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Daryn's point started "If you really believed..."

Not only had Festus not stated that he "really believed" he was not even sure his experience was ESP, just that it freaked him out a bit. The operative word here being "YOU". Maybe the point was "lost in translation", as in the original English, "you" is used as a direct reference to the person concerned. Perhaps Daryn meant "you" as in "one".
As for the "zinger effect" I think I have more success sucking lemons.... [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

As for your comments about our healthcare system, it is clear you have not the slightest capacity for rational comparison. The NHS may not be what it once was but at least it gives everyone a fair chance of getting treatment. And teeth, well I am happy with mine (especially now I have filed them down to sharpened points), rather my teeth and my face than your teeth and your face, anytime. And if I ever get in a big fight, it wont costs me $1000's when I lose my teeth (we can still get gold teeth on the NHS for free).

Do you think we're getting a bit off-topic here? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[daryn]

man you are something else.. you really think i'm arrogant? OK then, i can't change your opinions..

also i think to say a discussion on ESP qualifies as a physics discussion is laughable.

also my response to festus was not a feeble put down because it was not a put down! serious question for you, are you hypersensitive? it seems like it.

[naphand]

You could certainly change my opinions with reasoned argument, but that is not your preferred means of communication - you seem to either "not understand", "don't get it" or "pity people".

I don't think you're arrogant - it's self-evident from your posts. Just this one comment sums it up:

"why is it that every month or so i have to deal with a new internet loser who obviously must feel challenged by my intellectual prowess to make such a post??

Is this really the only explanation? Could it be that it's something to do with YOU and what you are posting? Could it? Can you really s-t-r-e-t-c-h your mind far enough to consider the possibility that the problem is to do with what YOU are doing? I mean, the whole "hate thread" thing, have you not noticed a trend here?

"also i think to say a discussion on ESP qualifies as a physics discussion is laughable."

Arrogant and ignorant. You claim to be interested in Physics, but have NEVER come across the parallels between quantum theory and consciousness-based phenomena? Maybe you should try reading a few of the publcations on the New Physics before you use such phrases as "laughable" as it is clear to anyone who is familiar with this work, that you are just an ignoramus. The work conducted by the Princeton Engineering Anomalies Reasearch Lab. should be a good start and then maybe Google to find out about some of the other publications.

The whole question of what consciousness is (and such things as ESP clearly come under that domain, being as they are, consciousness-based), is a matter of how "consciousness" arises from "inert matter". It is, in fact, a physics question. It is not a point of philosophy. Most attempts to study consciousness-based phenomena have involved either purely statistical tests, or some element of physical manipulation. Any proposed mechanism must have a theoretical basis, and as such a "physical means" for its propogation. The whole issue of what consciousness amounts to, it's properties, scope and mechanism of interaction with the physical environment is being increasingly linked to mathematics (which arises from the brain anyway) and unified field/quantum mechanical theories. Many significant mathematicians have expressed surprise at how some even totally abstract theories seem to have a place in quantum field/superstring theory: there are two possible explanations for this parallel, can you work out what they are, and why they may in fact be the same explanation?

OK, maybe I mis-read your one-liner to Festus, in which case I apologise, but considering the tone of your other posts, I think this assumption is really not that surprising. After all, if you drew 20 red balls in a row from a bag with 30 balls in it, you might anticipate expect the next one to also be red (of, course there is no absolute guarantee of that), or even, indeed, to assume the bag only contains red balls. Or am I being too abstract for you?