Tournament question

[Nukid]

Maybe this should be posted in the tournament section, but it's a stud question, so I'm putting it here. This tourney plays out 8 places and there are currently nine left. We are at the 100 ante, 200 bring in 500-1000 stage, and I am in last with 1300 chips. To my right is the second to last player with 2700, to my left 3rd with 5300, and at the other table is the fourth with 5700, everyone else has in excess of 8000.

The hand

(3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img])3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
(**)K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
(**)3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
(**)Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
(**)K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I bring in for 200, folded to the K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] who completes. What is my play. With the 3 being dead in the ring game, I probably let him steal, but I don't really want to be at a 3 to 1 chip disadvantage to the next lowest player, so I raised. He thought about it for a second, and raised, I figured this meant he actually had a real hand, but with the pot offering me 27:2 on the call, I couldn't fold. Is this the right way to look at it?

[DoctorK]

With 1300 in chips, you just anted 100 and brought it in for 200, leavind you with 1000, or enough for 8 more antes and a bring in. Less if you're the bring in more than once. In a tournament situation like this, you have to ask yourself, "Am I **likely** to see a better hand than this in the next 6-8 hands."

Although your 3 is semi-dead, your ace and clubs are totally live, while Kings are semi-dead for your opponent. Absolutely, positively 100% you have to be in this hand and hope to double up. No question about it.

I would have brought it in for the full 500. If you can steal the pot, great. Otherwise, you're getting it all in vs. at least one, maybe more, and you have a shot at doubling up.

Doc.

[Andy B]

My tournament record is less than stellar, but I'll take a stab. I think you should have at least considered bringing it in for the full $500, especially with your stack this short. All players except one have dead door cards, so you should be able to buy it a fair amount of the time, and you have a little something if you get played with. The ante is large, so it's worth trying to buy the pot. With your stack so short, you need to make a move sooner or later, and I think that you have enough to make your move now. If the King now comes over the top of you, you might get away from the hand if he's the sort that needs to have two Kings to make this play, but you're probably screwed. As you brought it in for the minimum, I'd probably play on, but I wouldn't like it. I recommend catching the <font color="red">3</font>[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] on fourth street.

This reminds me of a tournament hand I posted in October. The thread is here.

[Ray Zee]

its easy. you are getting almost two to one to play the hand out from this point. so reraise. you are less than 3 to 2 to win even if he has kings, which he likely doesnt as he looks like a steal. ytou want to play this hand fo all your chips. if you dont see this than you need to do some thinking.

even in a ring game you play back at him here.

[patrick dicaprio]

&lt;&lt;I recommend catching the 3 on fourth street&gt;&gt;

reminds me of earl weaver. in an interview he said the key to managing his team was giving specific instructions, such as "hit one out of here Boog," or "strike him out Jim."

Pat

[banditbdl]

You should be bringing it in here for the full 500 hoping you can take the antes down uncontested. One of your 3s is out, but you have a suited ace with no clubs out and two of your opponents are sharing the K doorcard, its a nobrainer to open for the fullbet 5-handed here. Given that you only brought it in for 200 the K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is in an obvious steal position when its folded around to him. When he raises again he may just be speeding the hand along because he realizes you are going all-in on this hand one way or another (this happens a lot in my experience), or of course he may have the best hand, either way you are easily pot committed and have a pretty decent hand at this stage.

[7stud]

I bring in for 200, folded to the K who completes. What is my play. With the 3 being dead in the ring game, I probably let him steal...

Why? You have a live overcard, an extremely live two flush, one of your opponent's Kings is dead, and your opponent is in a steal position. I would play that hand in a ring game every time.

I don't understand your math either: 27:2? Here is what I get:

Antes: 5 X $100
3rd: $200(your bring in) + $500(opponent completes) + $800(you raise)+ $1,000(opponent raises)

total = $3,000 and you're contemplating calling a $500 bet, which is 6:1. Where are you getting 27:2?

In addition, the pot is only offering you 6:1 if you're going to fold on the next card if you don't make the winning hand. Otherwise, the real pot odds are what you need to determine, which is how much you are going to have to put in the rest of the way versus the current amount in the pot plus all your opponent's future bets. If your opponent bets the whole way, then you will have to put in:

3rd: $500 more
4th: $500
5th: $1000
6th: $1000
7th: $1000
total = $4,000

versus

$3,000(current pot total) + opponent's future bets:
4th: $500
5th: $1,000
6th: $1,000
7th: $1,000
total = $6,500

6,500 to 4,000 is 1.6 to 1, so your real pots odds are much lower than 6 to 1.

[Chris Nichelson]

Don't know if they will censor the following word, but [censored] it . . . at this point you might as well go all in. You barely have a bet left, you have a live overcard to the likely pair, and your backdoor club possibilities are also live.

Unless you really want to come in 8th.

[crockpot]

unless you want to call here and fold if he catches a king on fourth (and you don't catch an ace or three), you will be playing this hand for all your chips, which means your true odds are 2.2:1, not whatever the pot is currently offering you.

you have to play the hand, and the best way is to reraise and hope the guy folds, since he is surely not such a big underdog that you want him to play. even with a junky hand like K72, you want him out. if the 2700 stack had less chips, it might be right to fold. but here you are probably going to go broke first if you fold anyway, and the pot is laying you good odds even if the opponent has kings, which is unlikely.

[7stud]

which means your true odds are 2.2:1, not whatever the pot is currently offering you.

Hmmm...I don't understand your math (but now I understand our hero's math [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]). My math above was incorrect: our hero only has $1300 left in chips, so he doesn't have to put more than that in the pot to call his opponent's bets. If $1300 is the total he had before the hand started, then the math looks like this:

Antes: 5 X $100
3rd: $200(hero's bring in) + $500(opponent completes) + $800(hero's raise) + $1000(opponent's reraise) + call?

Hero's bankroll: $1300 - $100(ante) - $200(bring in) - $800(raise) = $200.

Therefore, our hero is looking at putting in an additional $200 to win what's currently in the pot, which is $2,700: the opponent's last bet of $1000 covers the $500 raise by our hero plus an additional $500--of which our hero can only cover $200, so the opponent gets to take back $300. So, the real odds the pot is offering are $2,700 to $200 or 27 to 2, which is 13.5 to 1.

but with the pot offering me 27:2 on the call, I couldn't fold. Is this the right way to look at it?

Yep.