SnG Challenge, Week 1

[goodguy_1]

I'm also interesting in hearing from others on Hourly Earns in $10,$30,$50 and $100 sng's NL/PL/LHE!!

[Baulucky]

Congrats!. I hope someday I'll be that good. Enjoyed your post.

[Inthacup]

Not as many manaics going all-in during the first level with 88 or A4o

This makes me think that you play NL SnGs. I'm sorry I didn't specify, but I'm playing exclusively in limit SnGs.

What is your general strategy early?

Basically, I play like I would in a loose ring game. Unless I'm with some tight regulars, I'll limp with pocket pairs from most positions and play my big hands fast. Even at the 200+15 level, I still see people play A4un from EP. Also, on more than one occasion, I've seen a player comment that "I thought this was a NL SnG!". Whether this is actually true is debateable.

I try to get in with drawing hands cheaply (pairs, low/mid suited connectors) and flop some monsters.

I'll only play low suited connectors if I'm in LP and everyone has limped or the pot is unraised and I'm in the blinds. I play mid suited connectors the same basis with a few more exceptions. During the first 3rd of the tourney, my flops seen is usually in the 15-17% region. It's usually lower if I'm not getting many playable hands.


But I always find myself with about 100-150 fewer chips than I started with at level 4 and 6-8 people left.


One great thing about tourneys 50+5 and above is that you start with 1000 chips. This allows you to be much more patient before having to make a move. I think you're on the borderline for playing 50+5s, but I would gradually start playing in them if I were you. They are not much harder IMO, and it would be a good learning experience to start with 1000 vs. 800.


How do you feel about your mid level play? This is where I see the most mistakes in my opponents.



Cup

[guppy]

I notice you are playing limit SNGs. Do you prefer these to the NL/PL SNGs for some reason?

One virtue of the NL (and to a lesser extent PL) tourneys at the lower limits is that it is much easier for idiots to knock themselves out in a NL tourney. (PL takes a bit of work, since they can't go all-in in the early stages if the pot hasn't been built up first.) This usually lets anyone with a bit of self-control make it at least to the final 5, barring an early bad beat. I usually play the 10+1 level; I assume that idiots are much less prevalent up where you are playing.

Also, do you have any way of estimating equivalent talent levels for SNGs vs ring games? E.g. 5+1s and 10+1s are played by 2/4 players, but 50+5s are generally 5/10 players and 200+15s are played by 30/60 players?

Thanks for your posts.

[Prickly Pete]

Well done Cup!! Enjoyed the post and glad you are doing so well.

By my calculations, 44% ROI at $100 tables and 34% ROI at $200 tables. Goodguy suggested you may be running well and I don't know. I wouldn't expect you could do much better than you are now, but if you can maintain those rates, you would be doing fantastic.

I'd generally expect the ROI numbers to level out after 200 tourneys.

[Inthacup]

Dont be surprised if you cool down a bit...looks like you are running very good.

Yeah, I'm kinda waiting for the other shoe to drop. I feel like I already hit a fairly bad run of tourneys, only placing in 1 of 9. However, I expect worse runs to come in the future.


What type of sample size have you used in various limits as you moved up


I've played in tons of 10+1s, but that was before I had pokertracker, so except for a few excel docs, I don't have many records of that. A friend of mine has always jumped into the bigger games before me and I've gotten to see a lot of the competition through him. Between watching him and gradually moving up to 50+5s over the last few months, I felt pretty confident when starting the 100+9s.

How many sng's are needed to get an accurate feel for your winrate ??

I remember an old post that said something like 1500+ SnGs is needed to get a true idea of your win rate, however, I'd think 150-200 would give you a decent figure.


What type of ROI per tourney and In-the-money rate did you have in lower level sng's as you moved up($10,$30,$50 NL/PL/LHE)


These are the kinds of questions I was hoping others would chime in and elaborate on. My SnG experience is not too extensive and my records for low limits is virtually non-existant.


Lori,others any feedback is welcome on these specific sng question on sample size,ROI and In-theMoney%'s at all levels

I agree, I was hoping Lori would compare/contrast some results along these lines.


I thought your posting these to this forum was a little bit of an ego-thing but I know you from chatting I can see that you are just genuinely exciting about your succes in this new arena

No, I try to check the ego at the door. I think confidence is a crucial part to success in SnGs, but ego/cockiness will cause some serious -EV. I hope that by posting these, I will gain some insight into my successes/failures while becoming a better player. I have no doubt that I will be humbled several times before it's all over.



Cup


btw, I'm still deciding on whether to cross post this in the General forum. I think I may do it just to contrast the replies I get there vs. here.

[MS Sunshine]

Alot of good questions brought up in this thread. Thanks for starting the thread. SnGs bring up many strategy situations about 4-5 players that fall in the "depends" basket. I know, even with as many as I play, I'm not always happy with how I played a hand during this time.

Here's one of my beauties at the bubble:

***** Hand History for Game 328602042 *****
400/800 TOURNEYTEXASHTGAMETABLE (LIMIT) (TOURNAMENT 1859835) - SUN JAN 11 18:49:45 EST 2004
Table Card Room Table 598 (Real Money) -- Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 1: twptman (4255)Played very tight first few levels, but has been using his big stack very hard last few rounds.
Seat 5: TaintedJack (2400)
Seat 9: outfitters (370)will be all-in for BB next hand
Seat 10: Namplaa (2975)
twptman posts small blind (200)
TaintedJack posts big blind (400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to TaintedJack [ Td, Kc ]
outfitters folds.
Namplaa folds.
twptman raises (600) to 800
TaintedJack raises (800) to 1200 I feel I have the best hand and position with plans to bet flop if checked to and only spend my last $800 if I have top pair after that
twptman calls (400)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 8d, Ts, Th ]
twptman checks.
TaintedJack bets (400)
twptman calls (400)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ Js ]
twptman bets (800)
TaintedJack calls (800)
TaintedJack calls all-In.
** Dealing River ** : [ As ]
Creating Main Pot with $4800 with TaintedJack
** Summary **
Main Pot: 4800 |
Board: [ 8d Ts Th Js As ]
twptman balance 6655, bet 2400, collected 4800, net +2400 [ Qh Kh ] [ a straight, ten to ace -- As,Kh,Qh,Js,Ts ]
TaintedJack balance 0, lost 2400 [ Td Kc ] [ three of a kind, tens -- As,Kc,Td,Ts,Th ]
outfitters balance 370, didn't bet (folded)
Namplaa balance 2975, didn't bet (folded)
TaintedJack finished in fourth place.


My results are much better in the $55 than in the $33 and $109 about 35% ROI. Most, really, of my earn is notes, game selection and seat selection. Don't laugh, but I pass up about 80% of the SnGs I look at in the $33-55 range. I want several known weak players and I want to be sitting directly behinds the BIG LAG.

MS Sunshine

[Chris Parsley]

Lol I've done SNGs from 10+1 thru 50+5 and right now am using SNG's to rebuild my party bankroll.
Case in point yesterday started with $11 in the party acct, and right now Im at 200 from 10+1s... as soon as I hit 350 or so I'll probably switch back to my confort level, that being the 30+3.

Return on the 10-1 u might ask
1st - 3
2nd - 1
3rd - 4
out - 4

[goodguy_1]

MS you are the Master of Game Selection..this is so underated by upstart players.
At B&M I was notoriously persnickety at picking my 10 and 15 games and this was even on the graveyard shift..so game selective that I found in the first 2 full years I played B&M I only played 1500 hours per year..which in the end hurt my yearly totals.
Game selection and getting in necesaary hours have to be weighted carefully.Too selective and you dont get enough hours in to make decent money unless you are playing fairly high ($20-40 +)..not selective enough your short-term results will suffer ..thats only ok if you know over the long run you can get hours in at that limit and make money..you still need solid hours at any limit..unless you playing way high.
Playing online now I play 100-150 table hours a week..hehe.I still miss B&M poker.Yellow chip games in califorinia are still bvetter than Party $5-10 games on average..at least they were last time I played them..

My limited experience at sng's playing mostly 30's -only about 20-30 of these is that I'm a winning player- but I seem to get a huge number of 4th place finishes which tell me I havent done the neccesary work on my sng skills or that I'm not selective enough..since most sng's I play have many poor/mediocre players...game selection isnt so important.Obviously I need to work on strategy and really just playing them which I have never done..I have tended to play them at the end of my seeisons 4am/5am-not always at my sharpest..

I'll tell you one thing the more MTT's I play the more I've learn that these things have huge streaks bad and good.You can run good for 1 week and then run level/mediocre for a month ..very frustrating....MTT's a different horse alltogether..but In general i'm very happy w/my MTT results I ve played over 1300 hours of MTT's.

I'd like to hear more stats for all sng's ...

[Prickly Pete]

Cup, just curious if you're playing multiple tables at once. I've gone from 1 to 2 to now 3 tables at once over the last several months. And I'm sure I lose some edge in information doing this, but I make up more than enough by tripling my table hours. I imagine this might be tougher at the highest levels though.