Paradise poker multis have no rake?

[mosch]

For what it's worth, I've never seen it advertised as rake-free in any of my email from them, or in the pop-ups. I'm going to hold off on threats and site-switching until somebody can provide something more than hearsay about their claims.

Calling the total buy-in amount the prize pool when it really includes the tournament fee is sleazy and stupid, but I have bigger fish to fry at the moment.

[nummerfire]

It seems to me, that if you are a winning player you will have to pay more.

Lets say in a 20+2 tournament with a 1. price of 550 paradise will have a 20+0 tournament with a 1. price of 500.

So I pay 48 more under the paradise rules.

So in my mind my expectation will be less in such a tournament provided i am a winning player.

Is this to simplified (or maybe wrong) ?

Or will more bad players play under these rules ?

Kim

[mrbaseball]

[ QUOTE ]
if Paradise is doing this somewhat quietly, but also making a big noise about having "rake-free" tournaments, they deserve to lose ALL their customers

[/ QUOTE ]

As far as I know Paradise has never advertised "rake free" tournaments? They have been running freerolls, adding money and guarenteeing payoffs but I haven't seen the words "rake free" pop up in any of their promotions. When they launched their multis the 9% was clearly stated in the rules that they encouraged you to read in their promo.

In my opinion no shady dealing going on here at all. In fact I prefer their format and it's less rakes (9% vs 10%) than places like stars or party. Plus the software seems pretty damn good to me. I have played in about 7 or 8 of these things so far and since I'm up money the competition must be considered soft [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I give a big thumbs up to Paradise tourneys and will only play multis at Paradise or Stars because Partys just suck in my opinion. Paradise also has a much better schedule than Stars in the $10 to $50 range. I still think Stars software is best but Paradise is very close.

I think people are just too lazy to read the tournament rules. Paradise is a great spot for the low limit tourney palyer.

[jw2k]

In a pokerstars (or choose your favorite site) $10+1 tourney, the house collects 1/11th of all money put up by the players. At paradise, they collect 9% (about 1/11th) of
all money posted by the players. Either way, the total prize pool is about the same. The difference is probably in the number of payouts and/or how flat the payout scheme is.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

[Andrew Kinsman]

Like most of the other posters here, I am deeply suspicious of the way in which Paradise is collecting tournament revenues.

It is true that for standard freeze-out events, the Paradise 9% of buy-ins system is basically equivalent to the 10% registration fee charged elsewhere. However, when Paradise introduces re-buy/add-on events (as they most likely will later this year) this may not be the case.

Their rules state that 'Paradise Poker charges a 9% fee on gross tournament buy-ins.' If they take 9% of the total prize fund in a re-buy event they will be completely coining it in.

For example, as I write there is a $10 + $1 event re-buy event running at PokerStars. There were 151 entries, so the site is earning $151. The prize pool is $1510 for the original buy-ins, plus $3220 for all the re-buys and add-ons, for a total of $4730. If Paradise were running an equivalent $10 event, their 9% cut of the prize pool would be a massive $425.7.

[M.B.E.]

[ QUOTE ]
It is true that for standard freeze-out events, the Paradise 9% of buy-ins system is basically equivalent to the 10% registration fee charged elsewhere. However, when Paradise introduces re-buy/add-on events (as they most likely will later this year) this may not be the case.

[/ QUOTE ]
You're right, of course, but I'd say that the rebuy events on PokerStars are a great deal. For example, the "$109+rebuys" is basically equivalent to a $250 buyin event, but the site takes only $9 rake. Paradise may or may not offer this great deal when they introduce rebuy tournaments, but the result will not be worse than if they just had a $250 tourney and raked 9% of the pool.

Paradise got something of a bum wrap at the top of this thread since it was alleged they advertised "rake-free tournaments". That turns out not to be the case. Rather, they've just chosen to include the rake in the entry fee, instead of setting it out separately.

It's analogous to how sales taxes are displayed to consumers. In Europe, VAT is generally included in the final price that consumers see. They probably know they're paying tax on each item, if they stop to think about it, but they aren't reminded of it on each purchase. In North America, retailers generally display the base price, with tax being added at the register.

[Bozeman]

"You're right, of course, but I'd say that the rebuy events on PokerStars are a great deal."

This may be true, but almost everywhere does it like this, so the alternative is the unusual, and a relative ripoff.

[jedi]

That's true, I did allege this at the beginning of the post, based on second hand information. My buddy, whom I do respect, didn't think there was a rake. For some reason he thought it was just a temporary January thing, kicking off the new multi-table format at Paradise.

Well, now we know the truth. The rake is there, it's just already included in the entry fee.

[ QUOTE ]

Paradise got something of a bum wrap at the top of this thread since it was alleged they advertised "rake-free tournaments". That turns out not to be the case. Rather, they've just chosen to include the rake in the entry fee, instead of setting it out separately.


[/ QUOTE ]

[mrbaseball]

Once (if?) Paradise adds rebuy tournaments and they release the rake rules for them then we can start talking about how much of a ripoff they are (or aren't). Until then this discussion is fruitless.