tried playing QQ according to HPFAP....it sucked

[balkii]

Party 2/4. I pickup QQ in MP. I raise, LP 3-bets, and Its headsup. I call.

OK in HPFAP says when this happens you check and call unless an A or K hits, then its a check-fold. I say ok i'll try it, although i have never played QQ like this because i think it is too passive.

Flop is rags. I check call.
Turn is a blank. I check call.
River is an A. I check call.

sure enough he had AK. Is this really the correct strategy to use? I decided when i was 3-bet that I would play strictly according to HPFAP to try it out; I normally would have check-raised or led the betting at some point.

Who plays QQ like this? I feel that you dont make enough enough bets when he has JJ or TT, and let him draw too cheaply if he has AK. If you know a player will 3-bet with AA-TT, and AK, wont i be ahead here most of the time?

comments & suggestions ?

[coolhandsun]

Haven't read hpfap, but my understanding is that its designed for upper limit games. For lower limit games many of the concepts miss.

As for checking and calling with QQ with undercards, my understanding is that you should be betting unless an overcard falls, especially heads up. The only exception is if the other players are showing some strength.

If you'd bet the flop and turn, the dude might not have seen the river. And if he did, he wouldn't have been getting the right odds.

Gavin

[rkiray]

Actually the original poster is playing exactly like HPFAP says to. The reason not to bet is you are probably up against a big pair or AK. If someone has AK, checking and calling may get them to bluff all the way.

[bdypdx]

Considering the rags, I'd bet the flop. Possibly even 3 bet if raised.

If I got no action on the flop, I'd bet the turn.

[Nottom]

I'll have to reread that section, because it seems odd that HEFAP doesn't advocate capping the flop which I would do somewhere around 99% of the time. I also don't like the check-call approach out of position. This is very different from the bet if checked to, call if bet into approach you may use with position.

[rkiray]

It's the section starting on pg. 133. It's exactly the situation the original poster is in.

[balkii]

Again, I do not normally play QQ this way. I understand what everyone is saying about betting and all that. thats how i usually do it. I just decided to try it ala S&M. the fact that this is a low-limit game has no bearing, as its headsup.

I guess my question is why do S&M recommend playing like this? i dont mind losing a few chips if i'm up against AA or KK, if i stand to make many playing against JJ or TT, or AK. hell with all those people reading hellmuths book i might get a lot of action from 77 when the board comes all low. i think many players would call a CR on the turn looking for a 6-outer AK, and I would make as much doing that as I would *hoping* he will bluff the whole way.

[lil']

Cap pre-flop and come out betting.

[rkiray]

If people are often 3 betting with pairs like TT or 77 then you should play it that way. It doesn't matter that's it's heads-up. You are more likely to find really loose 3 bets in a low limit game. Therefore, in S&M games, it's much more likely you are up against AA, KK, or AK. In a tougher game lots of people will fold TT or even JJ to a raise. Especially if you have a tight image. In a low limit game many players will only think about their hand, and not even have an image for you.

[J.R.]

This line of play is best against a ABC tight aggressive player who will push AK just as hard as AA and KK. I would save this play for when you have a decent read.

Against many party opponents (who have wider 3-betting standards and will call more often than they should) this play becomes less valid. In this case you got an opponent to put in a bet on the flop and turn drawing to 6 outs, but you didn't follow S&M's strategy all the way thru [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img].

At the outset of the hand you have to commit yourself to play this way or not, you obviously weren't commited to this strategy, so you shouldn't start down the check-call path unless you are prepared to fold.