PP $25NL - Nut straight with a 3-flush board which pairs on the river

[bisonbison]

Table:
PP $25NL - I've been here about an hour. The table is pretty passive and loose, but tightens up after the flop. There hasn't been much crazy action, mostly just small give and take between stacks. I'm playing this and another limit table, so I'll admit I don't have much of a read on anybody.

Stacks:
Hero is at $50. SB is at $57. Rest are between 15-25.

Cards:
Hero is BB and finds 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Action:
UTG limps, SB limps, Hero checks. 3 to the flop for $1.50.

Flop: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

SB bets $1, Hero and UTG call. 3 to turn for $4.50

Turn: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

SB bets $1, Hero raises to $6, UTG calls, SB folds. 2 to river for $17.50

River: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Hero bets $8, UTG calls. $33.50 in the pot.


results in white font below.

<font color="white"> UTG had A-club 9-diamond for the Jack high straight. My Queen high straight wins.</font> &lt;------

Comments? The flush and the boat possibilities made me very hesitant about my straight. Was I too cautious? Not cautious enough?

[Ignatius]

I think you played the hand just fine (assuming you were ready to fold for a raise on turn/river) and got the maximum out of it. After UTG's turn call, his most likely hand was a 9, so on the river you want to bet an amount that he would pay you off (no way is he going to bet his non-nut single card str8 for you with a 3-fluch and a paird board), but which still allows you to get away from the hand if he comes over the top for any significant amount (you don't give his stack size), as he's extremely unlikely to bluff-raise in this spot.

[Piiop]

I don't understand why you didn't raise the flop. You have nut straight on the flop, do we not want to make draws pay?

[Guy McSucker]

You have nut straight on the flop

No, just a draw.

Guy.

[Zag]

I certainly can't fault the play, though it is not the one I would have chosen against most Party $25 players. The problem is that lots of players on Party with just a 9 would gladly raise all in on the river, and you would probably feel compelled to lay it down, as Ignatius correctly suggests.

Hmmm. In looking more carefully at your numbers, it looks like UTG had only $10 left after calling your bet on the river (or less). Would you really lay it down for that? It would be a $10 call for a $43 pot; I think you would have to make a crying call for that amount. Therefore, I think I love your bet on the river -- it is exactly enough to make a small flush just call you and not raise you all in. The smaller straight will still call you, and you were going to lose to the full house anyway.

The only question is how aggressive the UTG is. If he is very passive, and would never bet the smaller straight, AND he is untricky and would never bluff at this, then I would prefer a check (and fold) on the river.

[ericsind]

not to vary from the main issue, but say the board is A2345, and you've got a pair of 8's. you check, and your opponent bets $20 into a $10 pot. you have no idea what kind of player he is, and you've got $25. obviously, he could just be just betting in hopes of making you lay down the hand and taking your half of the pot, or he could have a 6. what do you do here? I've seen this done several times with varying results.

[bisonbison]

If he's betting 20 into a $10 pot, I've done something wrong. Or he's made some big mistakes.

I have 88 preflop. I raise to 6x the blind - $3. He calls $3. With what? A6? Ok, bad play. With 56 or 67? Terrible play. With 66? Ok, but what flop can he like that he continues on with?

If it's A45 and he calls my pot sized bet, then more power to him. If it's 345, he's still making a big mistake. If he comes back over the top of me on the flop, I'm done.

But if he's just calling along, never getting the odds, I want to know. I'd call his river bet.