Hand to Talk About

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Ulysses:

I'm now an old timer and "cutoff" is a relatively new term. To me the seat is "one off the button."

Best wishes,
mason

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Junior:

I basically agree except that J9o is certainly better than trash.

Best wishes,
mason

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi SKP:

I think at a lower limit, which tend to play less aggressively, calling becomes a viable option.

Best wishes,
Mason

[Mason Malmuth]

[ QUOTE ]
It's the kind of hand we all play when we're steaming.


[/ QUOTE ]

No comment.

Best wishes,
Mason

[mike l.]

this hand to talk about is dumb. any moron posting on here knows not to try to openraise (or limp) w/ J9o against 3 blinds. im with JV (or whoever it was), let's see a hand where you really played questionably. if you cant think of one from the past few months at least either you are not being honest with yourself or your game has leaks.

[doublesnapper]

I probably should shut up and learn, but I'll say what I'd done with it:

If it was a 9-10 player deal I'd have folded.
If it was a less than 7 player deal and my image was tight, I'd have steal raised.
If it was a less than 7 player deal and my image was that of a thief, and the players toact were not too agressive, I'd have limped because I don't think I'm such a big underdog. If I don't hit the flop good, I'm out.

Best

DoubleSnapper

[Gamblor]

What allows one to steal blinds is that a LP raise must be called by a blind, whilst out of position, for 1 SB when there are only 3 SB in the pot after the flop. Thus, unless the flop hits hard, he cannot anticipate calling a turn bet on a draw because he (assuming he calls a flop bet, making 5 SB in the pot) he is only getting 2.5:1 when calling a turn bet (because it doubles - he is now paying 2 SB to call in a 5 SB pot). I would argue a BB caller has to anticipate being at worst even money to the steal attempt to make a call proper.

All this leads to an easy fold to an LP steal. This is where the raise or fold doctrine most applies, if your hand (or read) warrants a 3-bet, or you believe you can steal on the flop with a 3-bet.

That being said, in this situation, the three blinds make a call from one (or more) of the blinds much more likely, because with 4.5 SB in the pot before the flop there are far more hands the blinds can call with, even out of position, and at worst a check-raise bluff is not out of the question.

[Gator]

I'm a newbie, so I could be way off base. However, what if we had a crystal ball and knew the other three hands? How might this impact our decision. There is $140 in the pot at this point. What are we typically facing with three random hands if we have this J9? Might it be fair to assume one hand we clearly dominate (i.e. 48 offsuit), one coin toss (i.e. pocket threes), and one hand that dominates us (i.e. KT offsuit)? First of all, is this a reasonable assumption - if not, substitute a better one? Now, if we knew the three hands, what would the FTofP suggest we do here? If I knew the above hands were exactly as stated, I think there might be merits to calling here, seeing the flop, seeing how the positionally disadvantaged players play the flop, and using position to my advantage post flop. I'd enjoy comments on the logic of these three specific guesstimated hands and the idea of playing the hand based on making such a guesstimate.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

The thing of it is, I would call you from either of the full size blinds with a wide variety of hands, even if I didn't have any idea who you were or how you played, or even if I knew exactly who you were and assumed you WERE a total tightwad. I am quite sure many others would too, so stealing is not very likely to happen. While J9o might not be "trash," it's still relatively iffy. Because of this I would tend to err towards being cautious here, ONLY because of the extra big blind. I am usually looking for an excuse NOT to play J9o rather than to play it, especially for a raise.

Once again tho, it's got to be pretty close, and I wouldn't argue too much if someone felt differently. If you were going to play it, you should probably raise at least to buy the button.

al

[Duke]